(Close Window) Topic: Sylvester The Jester has a fallout with the Magic Castle
Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Jun 6, 2005 4:38am)
Hey Tom, this is the Email I got from the Magic Castle. I can't believe it! After working there for nearly 20 years and receiving 12 nominations for performer of the year. 8 for parlour 2 for Palace one for Comedy and One for lecturer of the year. I guess all those people who voted for me don't count as much as the compaint letters. I have called Dale Hindman, but he hasn't called me back.

Your pal, Dan the Man (Sylvester The Jester)



From: "Ron Wilson" ron@uncannyscot.com
To: "Dan Sylvester" sylvesterthejester@hotmail.com
CC: "Dale Hindman" dhind7252@aol.com
Subject: Last week's show in the Palace
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:20:37 -0700

Danny,

I regret to inform you that I will no longer be able to book you to perform in the Palace of Mystery. We received many complaints from unhappy members who saw your act and even the host last Monday night approached me to tell me about the complaints he had received. Both Milt and Dale were present. One of the letters I received from a member was extremely bitter about your act, also criticizing whoever had booked the show.

Please contact Dale if you wish to take this matter further.

-Ron-
Message: Posted by: Paul Sherman (Jun 6, 2005 4:40am)
What were the complaints?
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Jun 6, 2005 5:33am)
Now that's weird. Sylvester is one of the most unique performers out there. His act is like no other. I don't know what happened, but I can probably guess that some people found some of his humor a bit too blue, but that means they didn't get his style. His character is an innocent who doesn't even realize when he is saying something naughty... that's what makes it funny.
I wish people would get a life and stop getting bothered by such trivial matters... as if Sylvester is what is wrong with the world.
Well, he will be missed... where else can you see someone have his eyes pop out and his tongue stretch a few feet everytime a beautiful girl walks by.

Greg
Message: Posted by: keeper (Jun 6, 2005 8:49am)
I too would be interested in the nature of the complaints. From the little info here though it appears that even private clubs are not imune from the puritanical values that are slowly eroding our country. Not seeing Sylvester's act is a great loss to the castle membership.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Jun 6, 2005 10:58am)
This is a shame, is this how the Magic Castle does things? An email with basically no explanation, just some vague talk about "complaints"? I think Dan mentioned that he was having some problems with people, or specifically one person at the Magic Castle in the interview he gave on magicbroadcast.com.

It's too bad, the quality of magic at the castle has just been decreased.

Vandy
Message: Posted by: Dorian Rhodell (Jun 6, 2005 4:47pm)
The quality of magic at the castle has been decreased for a long time now. It is only now that people are really starting to see it. It's always the same acts and while some are good, many are not. The castle has become more of a politicians playground than an actual place to nurture and promote the growth of magic as an art. I for one will never renew my membership again. And the funny part is that knowing I will never be a member again does not bother me in the least.

Dorian Rhodell
Message: Posted by: malini (Jun 6, 2005 8:58pm)
Did plan to visit the Magic Castle for the first time while I'm in La La Land, next week. Just changed my plans after reading this thread.

I can't stand political crap like this.

I think I'll have dinner somewhere and go to a nice theatre show instead.
Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Jun 6, 2005 9:16pm)
If you guys really have a problem with this, use the emails I posted and tell Ron and Dale what you think.

Let's help Dan get the respect he deserves. 21 shows in a week at the Castle for $700 and they treat him like this.

It's wrong and we can make a difference!

Message: Posted by: johnnymystic (Jun 6, 2005 9:45pm)
21 shows in a week at the castle and all he was paid was $700???!!! Man I'm no where near as famous and well known as Dan and I woulda charged quadruple the amount! Whoa...he was doing them a huge favor!

johnny
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Jun 6, 2005 9:54pm)
Quote:

On 2005-06-06 21:45, johnnymystic wrote:
21 shows in a week at the castle and all he was paid was $700???!!! Man I'm no where near as famous and well known as Dan and I woulda charged quadruple the amount! Whoa...he was doing them a huge favor!

johnny


Unfortunately, that's all the Castle pays anybody... famous or not. The greats work there just because it's the Castle and not for the money. As a matter of fact, a lot of international magicians who get booked there end up losing money because they pay for their won flight and hotel stays.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Steven Steele (Jun 6, 2005 10:40pm)
I left the Castle years ago because of several factors, one was the politicalness of the organization, the second was the raising of the dues and not allowing me to qualify for non-resident status even though I was 2 hours away, yet letting somebody else an hour away have the exemption, and finally they were allowing anybody who'd gone to Toys R Us and bought a couple of items to be members. I used to think you had to be, at least, respectable in skill, but found out that it didn't matter.

I haven't been to the Castle in years and have no plans to return in the immediate future. Besides, the food also went down hill. It used to be an exclusive club, meaning you had to "be somebody" to be a member. Now it just means "you've paid the required dues."
Message: Posted by: Turk (Jun 6, 2005 10:55pm)
Reminds me of the old Groucho Marx comment:

"I sent the club a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER."

It is really unfair that no warning was even given and that apparently certain members' opinions are worth more than the vast majority of other members.

If certain people would just lighten up and remove the corn cob from you know where, they might have a better outlook on life and have their sense of humor return. Must be gastly having to live such a humorless "holier than thou" existence.

Mike
Message: Posted by: Lee Darrow (Jun 7, 2005 1:06am)
Back in the Jurassic Period, when I auditioned (I was all of 24, I'm 53 now) when I did) and the front row held Vernon, Lanier and Scarne (I passed), I was told that my material was a little "blue" because I mentioned that I was going to "play with my sponge balls here on the table for your enjoyment." Now, if that's blue, I'll take vanilla. It seems that the Castle still hasn't caught up with the real world of working night clubs and other live events.

I've seen Dan's act several times and "blue" it most certainly isn't. A few double entendres, yes, but it is not blue. Eddie Murphy works "blue." Lenny Bruce worked "blue." Sylvester does not.

And, by my math, $700 for 21 shows in a week comes out to a whopping $33.33 per show! For that kind of money, the Castle should be on its knees thanking anyone they can get! Talk about working below the poverty level - that's not a pay scale, that's an insult!

Lee "well there goes any chance that I will ever work the Magic Castle!" Darrow
Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Jun 7, 2005 1:13am)
You wanted it, here it is. This is a clip from one of the complaint letters. The elderly gentleman this guy is refering to was Billy McComb.

The host of the main show was an elderly gentleman who made jokes about magic, but never actually performed any magic. If I wanted to see stand-up, I could have gone to the Comedy Club. The opening act was a marionette, entertaining, but still no magic. We kept waiting for the
marionettes to do some magic, but nothing. Then the main act was someone that was billed as a cartoon. Well, he certainly was a joke, Again, no magic tricks to be seen. His act looked like something you would see at Chucky Cheese, It was embarassing to say the least. There wasn't any
magic to be seen in the entire show. I find it hard to believe that the committee that approves the acts/performers would allow such a childish performance that did not include any actual magic acts.

Message: Posted by: Brian Proctor (Jun 7, 2005 3:26am)
You have got to be kidding me! The Castle should be standing up for Dan. His act is incredibly entertaining. Dan doesn't need their $700. He can make so much more anywhere else he wants.
Message: Posted by: Sam Tabar (Jun 7, 2005 4:09am)
Maybe he dropped the anvil on someone's head? :)
Message: Posted by: Sam Tabar (Jun 7, 2005 4:17am)
The one who wrote that complaint which Tom posted cannot appreciate the creativeness of a person. The only magic the complainant knows are the "Uncle Harry pulled a coin out of my ear" tricks. I feel sorry for Dan. I hope the Castle people change their minds.
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Jun 7, 2005 5:36am)
Quote:

On 2005-06-07 01:13, Tom Frank wrote:
You wanted it, here it is. This is a clip from one of the complaint letters. The elderly gentleman this guy is refering to was Billy McComb.

The host of the main show was an elderly gentleman who made jokes about magic, but never actually performed any magic. If I wanted to see stand-up, I could have gone to the Comedy Club. The opening act was a marionette, entertaining, but still no magic. We kept waiting for the
marionettes to do some magic, but nothing. Then the main act was someone that was billed as a cartoon. Well, he certainly was a joke, Again, no magic tricks to be seen. His act looked like something you would see at Chucky Cheese, It was embarassing to say the least. There wasn't any
magic to be seen in the entire show. I find it hard to believe that the committee that approves the acts/performers would allow such a childish performance that did not include any actual magic acts.




If this guy thinks that Dan's act is not magical then apparently the dementia has kicked in big time and he just already sees weird things in life.
Dan is a living cartoon. He does everything you've seen a cartoon do, but he does it LIVE. C'mon!
I hope that bug that resides in this old man's backside decides to peek out and have him for lunch.
I told this to Dan many times... if someone with money were smart they would rent a theater in Las Vegas and let Dan do his complete show. It would be a sell out. I've talked with him for hours and along with his already fantastic show he has dozens of other ideas that would take some money to put together, but would just make for a brilliant show.
And as others have already mentioned, the Castle seems to be in a downhill spin and some have said it might not make it past a couple of years. Sad.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Jun 7, 2005 7:14am)
No magic???? Does one really believe Dan can do these cartoon illusions without some form of magic connected to them.

I've seen and known Dan for several years and he actually showed me how everything worked. There is a lot of magic in his act. It is the most unique and comical act on the market. I also know his fee structure, and it appears he did these guys a favor. Sometimes one can't do favors because the return may not be worth, it as in this case.

Dan is a world know entertainer, and one of the best, surely one of the most unique! I'm glad to call him my friend!
Message: Posted by: Rick Fisher (Jun 7, 2005 8:21am)
I have to agree with everyone....his act is top notch. I remember when I was asked to perform at the Castle and was specifically asked "not" to do my vent act....because they didn't want variety acts just magic...guess what...did my vent act anyway - went over very well and not one person said a word. Very unfortunate that these folks see this act as "blue"... turn on the tv set and I will show you "blue"...;(

Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Jun 7, 2005 8:35am)
I'm glad to see that the MAGIC castle takes advice from laymen, they of course know what they're talking about. Here's quote from another intelligent laymen during a simmple ambitious card routine: "you used your sleeves!"
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Jun 7, 2005 8:51am)
Unfortunately, like many other establishments, it only takes one squeaky wheel to get action done... even if it is a stupid action.
I remember working as a Page for CBS and NBC many years ago... I worked the Price Is Right line all the time. Each day I saw over a thousand people in just a few hours and gave the same speech that I had made up to quiet the crowd when they talked to the producer. Everyone found it funny. One day an ex-marine, who apparently still had a chip on his shoulder, complained that I sounded like his old drill sergeant. That's all it took. It no longer mattered that thousands had never complained and actually enjoyed my funny speech... this one guy got them to write me up and to have me "tone" it down.
It seems stupid & uptight people now run the world. I keep saying that they are trying to make this into a Nerf planet where no one gets hurt and everything is nice and safe.

Well, I know this won't change the way Dan approaches his magic and I hope he runs into that guy one day and drops a safe on him... the real one.

Greg

Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Jun 7, 2005 9:44am)
It seems that many of you feel the same way I do. I am asking you to take action! What I would like you to do is write a letter outlining your feelings as why you think Dan is a benefit to the Magic Castle and why he should be able to continue to work there. Email it to "Ron Wilson" ron@uncannyscot.com and "Dale Hindman" dhind7252@aol.com

Then post it here. The day Dan got the email from Ron he called me on the phone. He was upset. Believe me, Dan doesn't work the Castle for the $33 a show, he does it for YOU. He loves magic and works harder on his act than anyone I know. I lived with him for 2 years. When I heard his voice the other night, I could feel his pain. I asked him if he would mind if I tried to do something about it. Now I am asking you all to show Danny what the "Voice of the people" means. More importantly, lets show Ron & Dale.
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Jun 7, 2005 10:21am)
Probably won't do anything,(because it seems like the folks at the Magic Castle are clueless) but I dropped those guys an email.

Vandy
Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Jun 7, 2005 10:50am)
Vandy, thank you for private messeging me the letter. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. Would you mind if I posted it here so that the others could see? It may not do anything, but at least they know how you feel about the situation. Thanks again for stepping up to the plate.

Sincerely,

Tom
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Jun 7, 2005 11:01am)
No, your welcome to post it. I have never been to the Magic Castle so it's not like I can do anything, except let them know one person does not like whats being done here. I'm a fan of Sylvester the Jester, and I think it's a joke that he's been cut loose. That's why I wrote the note. You may post it if you'd like, also let Dan know that there are people behind him, that appreciate his work and don't like to see people getting screwed.

Vandy
Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Jun 7, 2005 11:25am)
This was the private message that Vandy sent me. Thanks again for your help and support of Dan.

Tom,

I just sent the following E-mail to the addresses you provided. I Think this is ********, I don't know you or Dan but I still wanted to let these clowns know that this is a joke. I tried to be polite in the letter as I wouldn't want to be a jerk when I'm trying to help someone out, but I still think its a joke. Heres what I wrote;

I have recently learned that Dan Sylvester will no longer be allowed to perform at the Magic Castle. This is a very disappointing development. It’s hard to understand why such a talented magician and entertainer would not be allowed to continue to appear at the Castle. I find it hard to believe that his services would be discontinued based on letter from a customer, a customer who can not even identify Billy McComb and who is completely unfamiliar with Sylvester’s act. I seriously doubt that customer complaints are the reason the Mr. Sylvester will no longer be welcome to perform at the Castle. I’m sure the reasons are personal or political and I believe you are hurting the Magic Castle with this decision. It’s a shame; the reputation of the Magic Castle has suffered greatly in recent years. This will certainly not help matters. Actions like this hurt the reputation and credibility of the Castle, in fact they make the staff of the Castle look silly and petty.

Dan Sylvester is one of the most creative and original magicians performing today. The Castle was fortunate to have an entertainer of his caliber available to them. Now you have insulted and chased that talent away. This appears to be another step towards irrelevance for this once great establishment.

David J Vandegrift


It probably won't make a difference but at least they get one persons opinion. Take Care.

Vandy
Message: Posted by: kenscott (Jun 7, 2005 12:46pm)
That is really to bad. As for the acts that work there. . . it is not for money it is for the love of the castle and the art. The old saying is you have to save up to play the Castle.

Having just returned from performing a week there in early May I truely love the Castle and hate to see the changes that are being made. Most of the staff that has been there is gone. Hopefully Dan will be able to come back if he even wants to at this point.

Best,
Ken scott
Message: Posted by: MikeD (Jun 7, 2005 1:06pm)
There is a similar thread in the Genii forums. You should go here http://geniimagazine.com/forum/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=001590

and read Richard Kaufman's comments. And so you know, I have always enjoyed Dan's antics as Sylvester.

MikeD
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jun 7, 2005 2:24pm)
This post is an amazing example of the art of spin. I was at the castle the week of the performances AND I saw the show. I also overheard several of the comments made by members AND guests. I also have read Ronn's email and been to the Castle website where it lists Sylvester as performing in the Parlor, but not the Palace - the venue addressed in the email in question.

I think Tom is doing everyone a great disservice by allowing this misrepresentation to stand, and I encourage him to set the matter straight before things get out of hand.

And as others commented, in spite of Sylvester's reputation, the shows that week at the Castle fell totally flat. Part of this was due to Sylvester's placement on a bill with no magic. Due to a last minute cancellation - a far more interesting story than the one we are now focused on - the show was filled with a fabulous pupetteer. However, with him and McComb being funny, but doing no magic, many left the largest room of the Castle feeling as if they had been deprived from seeing any real magic. Sylvester's act may use illusory techniques, but to an audience it is a variety turn. Further, in that room, it simply played poorly. 8 minutes of strong material, spread out over a tepid twenty two with no audience connection at all.

Brad Henderson
Message: Posted by: Vandy Grift (Jun 7, 2005 2:50pm)
I have recieved an email from Ron Wilson. Basically, he let me know that he didn't appreciate the tone of my email and also stated that I didn't have my facts straight. I won't post the email, that would not be proper, but he shed some more light on the topic and stated some of the things that Richard Kaufman posted on the genii board and that Brad Henderson has posted above.

This is not for me to argue with anyone, it appears that there was some disappointment in the run of shows that week. However, Dan will be performing in the Parlor in the future as Brad has stated above. He is still welcome at the Castle according to Ron.

I simply told Ron and I would say to everyone involved. This is a sad episode that I hope will be worked out to the satsifaction of the Magic Castle, Dan Sylvester and especially the patrons who come to the Castle to see magic.

Vandy
Message: Posted by: Spino (Jun 7, 2005 4:51pm)
This is a very odd situation. This notes specifically about Palace performances, as Sylvester is still scheduled for June 20-26 in the Parlour. To me, it suggests this was an unpleasant decision. I would suggest a plan of action if you enjoy his work.

1) Contact Dale and Ron. Tell them you are visiting the Castle on June 20-26. Bring guests. And that you are specifically bringing yourself and guests to see Sylvester the Jester and that you want to ensure he will be there to perform for your guests. Be polite: I don't think it was a popular decision with them either. As Vandy mentions, we may not have all the facts, nor we may ever have all the facts.

2) Contact Dan the Man. Tell him you've heard the news and that you want to see him at the Castle. Be there that week. A little support goes a long way. (SO if you don't get my message soon, I'm bringing guests just for you, Dan! And I've been wanting to before this debacle.)

3) If you liked the show, be sure to thank him. (I would suggest to do this for any performer you truly like.)

4) If you like his act, vote for him in any upcoming AMA awards selection.

Ok, some of these suggestions are for AMA members, but support among working magicians is always good.

Here are emails you can send your requests to.

Dan - sylvesterthejester@hotmail.com
"Ron Wilson" ron@uncannyscot.com
"Dale Hindman" dhind7252@aol.com

Like many entertainment venues, compliments and praise shift opinion just as strongly as complaints.


Repost this message to anyplace you find appropriate.
David
Message: Posted by: John Macmillan (Jun 7, 2005 6:39pm)
Seems to me that a lot of grief could have been avoided if Ron Wilson had picked up a telephone and asked to meet face to face with Dan to discuss any concerns.

Email is at best impersonal and a poor way to communicate with anyone on this type of a subject.

Just my 2 cents worth!
Message: Posted by: Kline (Jun 7, 2005 6:57pm)
Seems to me that there is something missing from this entire story....I'm pretty sure all the facts have not been disclosed.
I don't know Ron Wilson at all but I would imagine that he has been doing this for a while and has seen a few acts come and go at the castle. Maybe we should all wait for the entire story before we start to ridicule.
Message: Posted by: markjens (Jun 8, 2005 10:39am)
How is it a mistake to get behind a talented and creative performer in this case? I somehow missed the point in this e-mail where a certain scheduler of magical talent took responsibility for putting together an entire after dinner 'magic show' with no magic. I missed the part in that short missive directed at Mr. Sylvester where he stated his need for a more balanced act in the Palace. Call it spin if you will, Mr. Henderson, but I think the e-mail was rude and unfair. Rather than view the situation for what it was, he reacted, rather than acted. Hmm, I wonder if Billy McComb and that most talented puppeteer also got the same dismissal from the venue? The agenda speaks for itself, if you ask me. When one books Sylvester the Jester, he knows what he's getting, and shouldn't lay the blame for a 'flat' week at his feet. "Gee Danny, maybe you could throw in some card tricks or a bit of mentalism?"
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jun 8, 2005 1:54pm)
Mark, get your facts straight before you start jumping on a bandwagon.

The audience laughed and loved Billy. He responded to his audience, got them on his side, and was the consumate host.

The audience was entranced with the puppeteer (who was called in on short notice - NOT the bookers fault). They laughed and were touched. The applauded with great ferver.

The audience, regardless of your or my personal feelings for the creativity of Sylvester's act, did not respond to him in any way except in the negative. I saw people walk out, they did not laugh, and the shifted uncomfortably in his seats.

Is Sylvester creative? Yes. Was his 5 minute spot on WGM wonderful? Yes! Does his act play in that large room for 20 minutes? The answer is, sadly, no.

Call some of the regular castle goers and ask about Sylvester's track record or his demands for being given two spots of time - more time than he seems to be able to entertainingly fill. Talk to others who have seen him perform regularly and ask about the reliability of his props. NOW realize that what you were sent was one email that was the tip of a large iceberg, one PERSONAL email that was not intended for publication. Do you post your friend's personal emails for others to see? Is that what civilized people do?

NOW you, yourself, spend sometime communicating with Ronn via email and come to learn that he sends short, concise emails that are to the point. If you knew that, then when you read the email, it would not have had any "tone" other than being very matter of fact.

Actually READ the email and see that it mentions nothing about being "banned" from the castle as the spin doctors have tried to convince others it does.

Now, try to read some of the other complaint emails that were sent which referenced Sylvester specifically. Have you seen them? I have.

NOW maybe you are closer to understanding what went on instead of relying on internet gossip to fuel your emotional reactions.

Brad
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Jun 8, 2005 2:08pm)
Does it really matter what any of us think of his act? Isn't it the opinion of the audience that counts? Apparently the audience does not like his act and the Castle has every right to do what they see fit to satisfy the audience.
Message: Posted by: briansmagic (Jun 9, 2005 1:53am)
Man, it is too bad that this happened. I LOVE his act, I saw it at PCAM this summer and I think it is probably the funniest act I have EVER seen. I was rolling on the floor I was laughing so hard. This was the first time seeing him live....man there's a lotta things they don't put on TV. Bottom line: he's GREAT at what he does
Message: Posted by: bsears (Jun 9, 2005 2:18pm)
If the act wasn't well received, why did the Castle continue to hire him again and again?



Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Jun 9, 2005 8:33pm)
Dan's letter to Dale sent June 2nd and 5th

Dale,

I left a phone message for you last week but have not received a reply. I wish to have a copy of these complaints about my act which the Castle received from various members. (The complaints for which I have been expelled from performing in the palace.) And If you would be so kind, I believe as someone who has been working there 15 years, perhaps, an explanation as to why these complaints hold so much weight, is also in order.

Needless to say it had been a difficult and stressful week there. Which should be noted by the fact that one performer quit opening night. But none the less what I don't understand is how these complaints could hold any weight with castle when I have been nominated performer of the year 9 times in the parlour with the same act and twice in the Palace. Not to mention all the other awards. And TV shows.
The AMA cannot decide to book people or not book people based on the very limited and often self-serving tastes of a few members. That seems to me to go directly against the Castle's stated purpose.

Again I am just on a fact finding mission. If you do not wish to explain yourselves, fine but I feel I am legally and morally entitled to a copy of those complaints.

Incurably, Daniel Sylvester


Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Jun 9, 2005 8:37pm)
Sylvester the Jester's messege to YOU


Hello everyone out there. I don?t believed I have written much on here if I have at all. So if I sound a bit awkward, well this is kinda new to me.

First of all I'd like to thank you all for your comments. They have been very kind and helpful, even loving. And I appreciate them all of thm even those that were critical.

There is not much more to this story then what you have been told but I will try to clarify things. It is true that I had, what was for the most part, an awful week in the Palace. And on many shows it did fall flat. The reasons for this is not as others have suggested , that my act doesn?t work in a big room. Last October I performed for 6000 a day everyday for a week in Beijing and the show was a hit. As it was in hundreds of other places. On the other hand I have had my share of bombs too in rooms big and small. This is always because of the same reasons (emotional stress). I have always suffered from these moments of high stress and experienced them many different venues. But a few bad shows doesn?t make the me a bad performer nor make my act bad and it didn?t keep the members from nominating me for performer of the year 9 times in the Parlour, twice in the Palace and once for lecturer of the year. But this last week in the Palace was by far the most stressful Ive ever experienced. Evidence of this might be noted in the fact that the opening act quit on the first night. And the cause of that was never rectified. In any event, I know some folks don?t get what I?m doing. And some folks may not like it. I accept that because that?s what art is all about. Some think Piccasso, is a genius others hate him. Some think Prince is great others cant stand him, the same with one of my heroes, Andy Kauffman. Not all languages are understood by all. Art is this way. There is nothing that is universally loved or hated but a hell of a lot that is just...well, digestable. Now if you were to read the mission statement of the AMA, it was formed for the advancement of the art of magic. The Advancement!!! Not the stagnation. Magic Must Diversify, like other forms and Evolve if it is to survive.

Have I gotten off the Point? No! Because I and others, who are trying new things represent that diversity. And the value of this far exceeds a few bad shows or criticisms or complaints from others.
And the Magic Castle, Is supposed to be the place for just that sort of stuff. All I have done is to ask for a copy of these complaints and an explanation as to why these complaints hold more weight more than the 12 nominations; the grand prix and the Baguette d?or in Monte Carlo. Or the PCAM gold medal or 50 TV shows.

I've been a member of the castle since 86 and have worked there since then and have been paying my dues since then. Am I not entitled to some explanation? A phone call? An email? I?ve called! and emailed Dale twice on two different addresses. To date I have received no reply.


Sincerely and incurably, Daniel Sylvester ?the Jester?
Message: Posted by: Tom Frank (Jun 9, 2005 8:40pm)
Dan finally gets a two sentence response from Dale.

Dales response just today June 9th.

These complaints were verbal, the people called us. In addition, 4 complaints were from guests, not even members. As you know, we have had concerns about your act in the past, and given the number of issues that were raised this past week, it is prudent that we not book you in the Palace with that act.

Dale
Message: Posted by: Brian F. (Jun 9, 2005 9:17pm)
I finally got to see this guy last year at the Sahara. It was the begining of the World's Greatest Magic Show. It was a great show...except for Sylvester. What a downer. He pulled down the energy of that show BIG TIME. The audience was getting downright irritated everytime he yelled, "Back to Normal!" or whatever it was. UGGGGG.

The Magic Castle did a wise thing.

Brian F.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jun 9, 2005 11:42pm)
Anyone else find it creepy that Ron's and Dale's personal emails are being publically posted? Is this the mature way to handle things?

Brad
Message: Posted by: Kline (Jun 10, 2005 12:43am)
So now I'm wondering why Dan can't post on this board himself.....why go through Tom ?
My original post on this topic said that there seems to be something missing - whether it be from Dans ( possibly Tom's ) end or from the castle folks....
Am I supposed to be impressed with the 12 nominations, the 50 TV shows, the new toaster you won at the flea market raffle, maybe I am, however, I'd be impressed if YOU stated your view, your angle, your feelings....why post through TOM ? or is this something Tom has taken on his own ? This is not open season on Dan Sylvester by any means, it is a conversation about an incident - lets learn from this and apply it to our own carriers !
I for one think its unfair to the readers of this forum due to the fact that those who can not read between the lines will of course be quick to point fingers and accuse others of wrongdoing....before they realize that this in turn IS an unfotunate situation and it seems has been compounding for some time. ( this is something I only assume through the posts above ).
WHY, I ask, are we subject to the bickering back and forth as to who was there, who likes Dan or doesn't, are the guys at the castle fair.....the "did you hear the latest", just stretched out to a very long 4 days and we still don't know all the details !
Guess what guys...My dad can throw a baseball farther than yours.....what is the *** point to this......lets move on !
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Jun 10, 2005 4:11am)
Kline, you are right on some points, but Dan was not showing-off, just giving his resume for those that don't know his history. I spoke for a long time with Dan this morning and got a bit of a gist of what happened. Some of the story is not out and I'm sure it will never be due to Dan's professional manner in not pointing fingers.
Anyway, I told him that one solution was to not even bother to post or do anything through any of these forums. I told him, "You are dealing with a group that's probably about 90% hobbyists, and although there are many professionals on the forums, almost none will be in a position to hire you so why sweat it."'
I like Dan, I like his act a lot, and I've had some very creative discussions with him. He is a deep thinker in the world of magic... and I'm sure when this has all gone away he will continue to be the artist he already is.
By the way, the reason he didn't post himself is that he found he had some sort of system that wouldn't allow him to log on.... there was no evil or secret intent to have someone else paste and copy his letter... I even offered to do that for him if he wanted.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Kline (Jun 10, 2005 9:05am)
Greg,
Thanks !
I totally agree that there are a good deal of hobbyists on this board - most of whom plan for months for the cub scout at the end of July ! There is no problem with that ! I have said it here before -folks are WAY to quick to judge on a public forum - this is unfortunate for all involved in the topic as it is unfair to the person being talked about as they have to bare the ridicule from those who are too quick to judge and the ones who do this, it is unfortunate that they are too narrow minded to think through the situation and realize that there are to many other factors to even start a sensable conversation on these boards.
Message: Posted by: Greg Arce (Jun 10, 2005 9:26am)
With you all the way on that one, Kline. It's best that we all probably stay out of this until either Dan settles it or it just goes away on its own.

By the way, my statistic that there's probably about 90% hobbyists on this or any other forum is not a snipe at hobbyist. They keep the magic dealers alive and well and I'm sure many truly love magic.

Greg
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Jun 11, 2005 11:35am)
Heard from Dan,

And he appricates all the support from you guys. He also recognizes that what he does is not for everyone.

As stated above all the awards he has received, is a strong indication of what he does is really deserving for the artistic expression he protrays as a [/b]"Real Live Cartoon"[/b]
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Jun 11, 2005 4:10pm)
PS. Here is Dan's email address ( sylvesterthejester@hotmail.com ) Send him a quick email telling him you support his style of entertainment and magic. I assure you, it will brighten his day!
Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Jun 12, 2005 3:37am)
Why can't some accept the fact that the non-magician audience doesn't like the same performers we do? When are we going to stop trying to impress each other and start worrying about the laymen.
Message: Posted by: wand (Jun 12, 2005 11:21am)
Well, here we go....my two cents worth...

I saw Sylvester's show for the first time the week of these complaints and, even though I know I will be taken to task for this, I didn't like it at all. Nor did the the standing room only audience. I heard people making rude comments to each other throughout the show. Billy McComb, who did not do one trick, was the highlight of the palace that night. He was hilarious. Without a single prop, he got a better respnse from the audience than Sylvester did with his entire show.

Don't get me wrong, the show was somewhat humorous but I found very little creativity. He copied the same sounds, gags, etc., that I grew up with watching those old cartoons from the 60's.

If I copied another magician's act, or even used his/her lines/jokes, People on this forum would call it stealing and un-orignal but since he took it from cartoons, he's creative and original. I don't agree.

I'm sorry, but it was by far the most boring show that I have ever seen in the castle.

I have always been very vocal about the castle and the non-magic entertainment they bring in but the puppeteer that preceded Sylvester blew him away !!! I'm not making this up. Ask anyone who was there.

As far as the castle goes...I have been unhappy with the performances there for years which is why I won't become a member. I'm tired of seeing card to wallet 6 times in one night. By the end of the evening, a monkey would know how the trick works.

I recently saw Shoot Ogawa in the closup room. He was great as usual. Afterwards, we saw Bruce Cervon in the parlor. Bruce asked if the audience had seen Shoot to which most of us responded with applause for the great show that Shoot had given us(a rarity at the castle) Bruce then did something that to this day, I still cannot believe...he asked in a very sarcastic voice..."so, does he speak any english?" This really happened!!! He then went on to spend half of his show time leaning against the wall and telling that he doesn't give a *** if we like his or not or if we like his magic or not...

This is why I will not give them my money to become a member. The castle ood ole boy cesspool where a bunch of old time (Dare I say Has Been) magicians like Cervon sit around and put down the up and coming talent. They base there tenure there on the fact they knew or claim to have known Dai Vernon...WHO CARES!!
Dai Vernon deserves every bit of respect the he is given but don't base who can and canno perform/run the board on who knew him.

I have literally seen people walk out of several performances and have, on many occassions been embarrassed by shows at the castle.

The new trend at the castle seems to be comedy instead of magic. The problem is that these guys are not funny. I agree with the person who wrote the letter. If I want to see a comedian with 1 or 2 silly self-working tricks thrown in, I can go to any comedy and magic club and see the same thing for a lot less money.
Most of these guys seem to think that comedy means throwing out rapid fire one liners like Robin Williams and hoping that some of them will get a laugh.

I have also seen two closup shows where the performer was so drunk that he was actually slurring his speech and looked like he was going to fall off the stool. The ony thing that got these guys through their show was their muscle memory and reflexes. They basically were just going through the motions. But, again, they were old time boys from the castle so the show went on.

Well, there you have it. Please excuse the typos as I'm too lazy today to go back and correct them. I'm also very passionate about this subject so my fingers were moving faster thatn my brain.

Micheal Ammar, Martin Nash, Larry Jennings, Shoot Ogawa, Billy McComb...with no rude insults or silly jokes or costumes they amaze and entertain on a level far beyond Sylvester and those magicians who replace talent and true creativity with insults and squeeky toys.

(All that being said, how the h--- did sylvester staple his face back on...wouldn't that hurt??????)

Okay...let me have it !!!!

As far as the comment about magicians who criticize acts at the castle being narrow minded I can only say that when I go to the castle, I go there to be entertained, not as amagician. When I'm walking out of one of the room at the castle and here other people denigrating the show, that tells me that I'm not the only one who thought that the act was bad.

The facts speak for themselves, people on that night did not like Sylvester's show...there are no two ways about it. They are not the only ones...Ive been hearing bad thing about it for years. This was my first and last experience with the Jester.

By the way, if Ron Wilson is reading this, please tell the guys at the castle to stop the trend of waving their thump-tipped hand around in the air trying to prove to the magicians in the audience that the gimmick is invisible...IT IS VISIBLE AND THESE GUYS REALLY LOOK STUPID TO LAY AUDIENCES WHEN THEY DO IT!!!!!!!!

While we're on the subject. What exacty is a hobbyist and why do their opinions not count??

I perform when I can but I don't consider myself a professional or a hobbyist. I'm in magic limbo.

I know several complete hobbyists who regularly blow away guys at the castle who are so-called professionals with their skills. But, apparently, these guys are not allowed to have a valid opinion of what constitutes good magic.

The problem with the pros is that after reaching a certain level, they automatically assume that everything they do fools everyone. Sorry, guys, not the case, as evidenced by the bad shows and some of the crap that these guys put on their videos.

I have a friend who is very well known in the magic community as both a performer and a creator who pretty much believes that because I don't make a living performing magic, I don't have the right to judge what is entertaining. This being, of course, sheer nonsense since I have as much right to decide what entertains me as anyone else.

When I see a world class professional magician in the c/u room at the castle flashing his cards and coins all over the place as I did from the back row a short time ago...I'm not going to say that this is good entertainment just because the guy is famous and says it is good. It doesn't work that way.

I don't believe in taking the word of pros who sit in the basement of the castle until 3am complementing each others passes and unusable sleights as the final word in what constitutes good magic entertainment.

Okay, I guess that I've now put in my 12 cents worth. Sorry, but this is another subject about which I am very passionate.

WE ARE NOT CURING CANCER....WE'RE MAGICIANS !!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way,
When I was a kid, I used to ask my dad that same question about stapling the face back on when Moe did it to curly or when Daffy duck did it to himself.

But I know that Sylvester didn't take the idea from either of those shows because that would be....and it would mean that maybe he's not so...uh,
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jun 12, 2005 7:14pm)
The problem isn't that Sylvester recreates a cartoon - that's actually clever - the problem is his personal cartoon is too long and repetitive. How many ways are there to tear off your face and reveal your moving eyes and mouth on an object? I suspect Sylvester is very proud of his creations, and rightfully so. So, when given the opportunity, he wants to make sure we, the audience, see all of them. So, we have a 30 minute show where his head gets meishappen or blown off 6 times.

This, I feel, is theatrically unsound. Remember, the early cartoons (silly symphonies, for example) were 3-4 minutes long. The novelty of visuals held the audiences attention. The "throughline" was the music. As characters were developed and story lines infused, they gradually lengthened 6 minutes and then to feature films.

Sylverster's act has no character development, musical unity, or dramatic arch. It is a series of visuals. Consequently, once those visuals start repeating, the audience gets bored.

I was at the Castle when the emails went out. I said consistently, "Dan has one of the coolest 6 minute acts in all of magic. Sadly, he spreads it out over 25."

If Dan took his material and created 3 distinct sets, with perhaps one or two key items shared between, he would have a rock solid act that could play repeat venues for years.

But 25 minutes on that big stage, with all that repetition just doesn't play.

So, Dan's idea is a good one. He just needs to become a little more critical of his choices. Hiring a director, like Fitch, would do wonders.

My 2 cents.

Brad Henderson
Message: Posted by: MagicMan1957 (Jun 12, 2005 9:14pm)
I,ve only seen SYLVESTER THE JESTER a few times on television and really thought his act was very clever and unique.

That being said, in my opinion this very special specialty act would kill in smaller doses like RUDY COBY with his multi-legged dancing man routine.
Message: Posted by: wand (Jun 14, 2005 2:05am)
I have to agree with truthteller above to an extent. I still don't consider Sylvester creative or unique...but I would not have been as bored with the show had it run shorter.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jun 14, 2005 4:25pm)
Not creative or unique? Are you sure you saw him? How many effects does he do you can buy at your local magic shop?

How many acts look and act like him?

???????????
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Jun 14, 2005 5:09pm)
Obviously 'wand', is a newbie (few postings). I've seen the internal workings of many of his props and creative, unique, and the "wow" factor is what Dan Sylvester is about. Just try to come up with an act like that. It took months and in some cases years to develop what he does. His electronic vest is a piece of art. His head blowing off is another misdirection, well time masterpiece.

I just can't undrestand how anyone can say Dan Sylvester is not unique? There is no others like him in the world! To me that's unique.

At a restaurant, I had to do everthing to prevent me from chocking from laughing so hard. He has more funny bits that most people have never seen. And MAGIC! I've spent a year trying to master the Sylvester Pitch and I still can't do it the way he does it...so naturally. (He's done it a lot longer than I.)
Message: Posted by: wand (Jun 15, 2005 2:01pm)
Uh oh, ruffled feathers !!!!!

The fact that a trick works on a unique principle has nothing to do with how the audience perceives the illusion, which is what I'm talking about. What the audience sees in Sylvester's show is not creative or unique...it is a rehash of ideas that were conceived probably before he was born by writers for warner brothers cartoons. 99 percent of what I saw in his show was taken directly from those old cartoons...I don't consider this unique or creative. That's my opinion. I'm not in any way saying that the guy is not a good magician because I've not seen his closeup act which I've heard is pretty good. The topic was centered on his stage act which, obvioulsy, got extremely mixed reviews.

As far as my being a "newbie" to this forum...yes, I am. So...I'm assuming that you feel that someone who doesn't spend 20 hours a day on this sight and hasn't posted 20,000 items could not possibly have a valid opinion of what constitutes good magic entertainment(I spoke about this in my post above). This is the old school attitude that is causing the problems for the castle and, I believe, for magic itself.
Since I havn't yet seen any posts from David Copperfield, lance Burton or Michael Ammar(Maybe I missed them) then, by your logic, these people are not allowed to have an opinion on magic entertainment because they are not regulars on this forum. This is seriously flawed logic. I've been involved in magic as a hobby and as a part time perfomer probably as long as you have if not longer. As I said above, whether one does one hundred shows a month or 10 does not have any bearing on one's judgement of what is entertaining to that person. Or, obviously, to the many people who walked out of Sylvester's show that night. Or to the people who were talking about in the next room. The facts speak for themselves.

One of the reasons I don't post much on this site is because there are to many people who argue from passion instead of from what constitutes good magic entertainment(which of course, will vary from person to person as it is completely subjective.)I'm not at all impressed with all the posts by people who basically just want everyone to know that they hang out with the jester and who feel that they must defend him because he is their friend. Again, the facts speak for themselves. I don't know him but even if he were my best friend I would not have liked his show and I would have told him why. It's one man's opinion.
As far as his awards go...I have seen quite a few "award winning shows" at the castle that were terrible.

I'm sorry guys, I'm not going to change my opinion because the well known pros on this forum don't agree with me. My opinion is just as valid as Pete Biro's or Dean Dill's or anyone else's on what is entertaining. The fact that our opinions don't agree, is what makes the world go around and our world is no different. If ou read my earlier posts, you'll realize that I didn't say that the opinions of those who liked his show were wrong and I would never say that anyone is wrong for holding an opinion contrary to mine(and I certainly wouldn't base it on the number of posts that someone has, which makes no sense at all). I repeat...the facts of that night speak for themselves... a lot of people did not like the show. I also don't think that we should be upset that someone posits their opinion if it differs from our own by insulting their intelligence with names like, "Newbie" which tells everyone reading this post that you base your opinion on nothing more than the number of posts that one has on this site.

That being said...I feel that the gag where sylvester hits himself in the face with the pizza pan and his face becomes flat was much more believable when Daffy duck did it every saturday morning when I was a kid

Have fun !!!!



Message: Posted by: Micheal Leath (Jun 15, 2005 6:34pm)
Great post "wand." I agree when you say it is how the audience perceives that counts. So what if his methods are unique? The audience should not know about the secret methods. The audience apparently doesn't like his act. Maybe one day magicians will stop worrying about what other magicians think and stop trying to impress each other. We need to concentrate on fooling and entertaining the laymen and then maybe people will have more respect for magicians.

Micheal Leath
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Jun 15, 2005 7:11pm)
Opps, ruffles some feathers, here. I stick up for a friend who I truly believe is unique and creative. Comedy is not for everyone and it's a fact of the 32 different personalities in Myers Briggs research, at least 8 are going to be offended by this type of comedy.
Message: Posted by: Payne (Jun 15, 2005 7:22pm)
It is great that Sylvesters act elicited a strong (albeit negative) response from his audience. This is what art is all about, creating an emotional response.
I have much more respect for performers who push the envelope and create acts that the audience either loves or hates than the multitude of wannabe clone performers who play it safe and do what they think the audience wants to see.
It is sad that the Castle seems to support the latter practitioner rather than the former thus keeping magic forever in the past.
True they are a commercial enterprise and need to keep their audiences happy but they also are custodians of the craft and therefor need to keep bringing in cutting edge workers who push at the boundaries of the art of magic and keep propelling it forward.
Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jun 15, 2005 8:42pm)
Payne,

While I agree that magic should elicit response, that was not the case with Sylvester's act. It just fell flat. Which is a shame, because I think the idea of making a cartoon real onstage is a good one, and creative in a postmodern sense. (And I also think, in small doses, it can play REALLY strong.)

The reactions to his act was not "passionate." It was more "bleh." What got everyone's blodd boiling was the spin given by Tom regarding what was said and the alleged ban.

Brad

Message: Posted by: GlenD (Jun 17, 2005 1:39pm)
I remember when I first saw Sylvester's act. I remember how different it was, the originality really struck me but at one point thought where is the magic ? Then realized it is all throughout everything he is doing, it is just different. The other thing I remember is laughing through the whole show.

So, I was excited to see him again that first show on Monday of the infamous week in question. I also had a friend of mine with me and was looking forward to his reactions to this human cartoon nut.

Well, as has been stated repeatedly, the act fell a little short. Besides so many of his props failing was also a downer.
A failing prop in itself is no reason to criticize a performer, especially from other fellow performers! We have probably all had that happen more than once (just not over and over in the same show).

I can understand something being said but I thought it a little over-reacting to disallow him from performing in the palace anymore.

I don't know how he feels about performing in the parlor but I would certainly see him again, there or anywhere and I am sure he will be great.

Next time I mess up or feel like I had a bad show, I will remember this episode and remind myself that it's not so bad!

Thanks Sylvester and responsible staff of The Magic Castle!

GlenD
Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Jun 18, 2005 12:38am)
Actions by the Magic Castle will not stop me from visiting the castle or even, maybe, someday performing there.

I am proud to know Dan Sylvester on a personal level, and have him private tutor me on the Sylvester Pitch and get to know the way he thinks when it comes to magic. He thinks "out of the box" and could teach many new ways to approach a problem, or how to be creative.

It's really amazing that the "new users" have so much negatism in their postings. Are those posts improving the learning going on here at the Café. I can visualize a room full of them tearing down a performer instead of encouraging them.
Message: Posted by: wand (Jun 18, 2005 10:13am)
You can visualize this because you are completely misunderstanding the intention behind that posts and, unfortunately, refusing to abandon your absurd idea that people who don't post 50 million times a year have no right to an honest opinion.

I just finished re-reading all of the posts about Sylvester and I found nothing degrading to him personally in any of them. They are all based on each individual's honest opinion of what constitutes good magical entertainment to the poster. None of the negative posts "tore the performer down" as DenDowhy's posts imply...just re-read them.

I have to reitterate that just because I didn't care at all for his stage act, that doesn't mean that I won't go to see him in the close-up room. I have heard that his close-up stuff, though rare, is great.

I saw John Carney in the parlor last year and I didn't care much for his act...I was expecting much more from someone touted as ne of the greatest thinkers in the history of magic. I did, however,really enjoy his close-up act. I am now waiting to see his Mr. Mysto act.
I'm sorry , but I feel that all opinions, even negative ones, are valuable.
Dendowhy needs to stop arguing from passion and realize that the world would be a very,ver boring place if we all held the same opinions on everything.

The main reason I don't post much here is because I've noticed a trend of performers arguing non-informative points like the one I saw several days ago in shich two pretty well known names were arguing over who has done more shows in venues with more that 1100 people...who cares!!! These are two performers that I, for one, feel have a lot to teach those reading there posts, "pros" or not.

I try to respect everyone's honest opinion as much as possible but I have to say that the idea that the number of posts that one places on this site should be a determining factor in how much the readers value that person's opinion is completely absurd.

Again, I have to ask dendowhy if he would apply this same logic to Michael Ammar or Jeff McBridewere they to suddenly post on the site. THERE IS NO CORRELATION BETWEEN THE NUMBER OF POSTS AND ONE'S ABILITY TO FORM AN HONEST OPINION ABOUT WHAT CONSTITUTES ENTERTAINING MAGICAL ENTERTAINMENT TO THE POSTER. WOULD YOU GO ON TIS SITE AND CALL JEFF McBride A "NEWBIE AND PUT DOWN HIS OPINION WERE HE TO POST A RESPONSE THAT DID NOT COINCIDE WITH YOUR OWN? At this point, dendowhy has not answered this direct question. he continues to use the term so I have to assume in the absense of a direct reaponse that you would.

I would also like very much for any other magicians who feel so inclined to answer,articularly those well known pros whom I have seen posting here.

As far as my comments about the castle are concerned (as well as those of the other posters who commented negatively on the subject) again, I have to say that I did not make up the things that I talked about. THEY REALLY HAPPENED. I don't have an axe to grind against anyone personally at the castle, as those who subscribe to Dendowhy's logic would probably assert...I simply believe that for the money that one spends at the castle on any given night, one should receive the highest caliber of entertainment available. After all, they do bill themselves as the greatest venue for magic in the world. Mike Close wrote a great article in his column in Magic magazine several issues ago about billing oneself and then living up to that billing. The board at the castle should read this article.
When I invite friends to the castle and spend a pretty good amount of money for dinner plus the cover charge and then sit through the worst pick-pocket act I have ever seen as I did once at the castle (4 people walked out of the parlor) I feel that I have the right to voice my opinion to the fact.

Dendowhy needs to realize that censorship means removing standards of comparison (whether it be books, paintings or honest opinions) to ensure that the masses cannot do anything but agree with those few who want to control what others think, say and do and force everyone to fall in line with the ideas of the censors. When you tell me that I don't have a right to an opinion based on facts, regardless of your criteria, YOU ARE BECOMING A CENSOR. As magicians, we are supposed to be above that. READ YOUR HISTORY, DENDOHWY

YOU NEED TO LEARN TO ARGUE DISPASSIONATELY, DENDOWHY. AN IMPASSIONED ARGUMENT WILL NEVER STAND UP TO TRUTH, HONESTY AND FACTS

HAVE FUN !!!!


Message: Posted by: Kline (Jun 18, 2005 10:56am)
I want to know why posts are being deleted from this topic !
Message: Posted by: wand (Jun 18, 2005 11:00am)
By the way, I totally disagree with Sylvester being disallowed in the palace. This, again, is tantamount to censorship. Though I didn't like the show, I don't feel that it should be banned based on mixed reviews.

Message: Posted by: Dennis Michael (Jun 18, 2005 12:15pm)
A newbie is one who has "New user" under their name. When I make long post, generally many get useful information in that post. As for thruth, as one attorney said me, "Honesty, facts, and lies are all perceptions. It is the juries job to determine what is truth?"

If Jeff McBride or Ammar were to post here, they too would be a "newbie" (New User), however, having been private tutored by Jeff, and been to Ammar's lectures, neither waste time on the negative because there is so much to learn in the positive. If I disagreed with them I would PM them in private because I know thier responses I would learn from and they would respond in a positive manner. They too, in their many years of wisdom, are not beyond learning from others.
-----

Kline, posts are removed for numerous reasons which are stated by Steve Brooks in the first section. Generally posts which offer nothing to the magic community, or posts which are derogortory to other members of the Café are deleted.

There are numerous "newbies" who just like to argue, contribute nothing, and some even log on just to sell their products. Some are banned because they just enjoy degrading people.
-----------------

Having spent $20,000 in the court system fighting for truth, I've learned an expensive lesson. I find the laughter and enjoyment of magic and humor one of the most valuable and precious commodities in life.

Howard, I just don't like you!

For some reason, those words bother me. If you felt nothing in reading them, then we are truly opposite personaities. They were not meant to be truth, only expess a point. Negativism hurts. I much rather read ways Dan could improve his act, what would be funny, etc. Any magician on their best day could find improvement. I am the kind of person who can find the best in someone and try to expound upon that. It feels good for the both of us. I let the others focus on the negativism, and there are plenty of them around.
Message: Posted by: wand (Jun 18, 2005 12:17pm)
130 posts. Hmmmmmmm, okay, I guess your validated with that number.
Message: Posted by: wand (Jun 18, 2005 1:28pm)
I know what the term newbie means but you are still skirting the issue. You implied directly that because I am new to the forum that my opinions are not as valid as someone who has many more posts...go back and read your initial post where you used the term.

My question was not whether the people you mentioned would be considered newbies if they had never posted before because obviously, they would be...my question deat with the more important issue of whether you would automatically invalidate their opinions based on the numbe of their posts, as you did mine.

I'm sorry but as far as personal opinions as to what constitutes good magical entertainment, jeff McBrides's opinion is no more valuable or informed than mine or anyone elses.

Also, as I stated earlier, if you want to go through your entire life hearing only positive opinions that's your choice but I personally would want to hear both negative and positive comments concerning my acts(and believe me, I do)from my friends and I especialy value those coming from non magicians. I have made changes in my routines based on those comments. If everyone praised my routines I would have continued with the same routines without any of them really evolving.
I read in John Lovick's (AKA Handsome Jack) 'Skinny lecture notes" that one of his close magician friends told him honestly to remove a section of his routine. He said that he was bothered about giving it up but he listened and his act became better for it(he is, by the way one of my favorite castle performers but I didn't care for his last stage routine)
As far as not learning anything from these posts, I have to strongly disagree... we are talking about one of the most imortant things in any branch of entertainment...learning from your audience and not convincing yourself that you have reached a level where you no longer need to think about what goes on the minds of lay audiences.

Again, for some reason, you're taking the negative posts as a direct insult to your friend. There is no hint of negativity towards Sylvester himself as a person or as a performer in any of the above posts.

Several weeks ago, I worked a banquet where I did walk around magic. After working several tables, a lady came up to me and said that she really enjoyed the magic but that at one point, she couls see that I had a coin palmed in my right hand. Hearing this, I thanked her and shifted my hand position for the rest of the evening to better cover my angles. Should I have not taken her comment seriously because she is not a professional magician with 5000 posts and continued doing it the same way???? I believe in a round about way she was giving me her honest opinion as to what would make the routine more entertaining.

Saying "I do not Like _______" is not a negative opinion of ones show. It is a personal opinion about an individual and is therefore not a valid example of the point that we are talking about.

Again !!!! I did not nor did anyone else in the above posts say anything negative about Danny Sylvester. Nobody said "I don't like Danny Sylvester". Because someone says that a particular show of his is not creative or unique, does not in any way imply a personal dislike for him or that he himself is not a creative person.
I love most of the works of DaVinci but there are a few that I don't like at all...by your argument I must not consider him creative. And, again using your logic, you could further surmise that I would not have liked him a person because I did not like some of his works. This is extremely flawed logic. Again I urge you to think dispassionately. A true friend won't be hurt if you tell him that you did not like his act as long as you are sincere and can tell him exactly what it is about it that you did not like.
How many times have you seen a trick put out by a new kid on the block and the next time you're at the castle you see a pro using it?? This has happened to me several times. That's because this pro realized that even at his level he can still learn from the "newbies" Shoot Ogawa is teaching a lot of new stuff( albeit indirectly) to these old pros as are a lot of the newbies.
I was also at a Michael Ammar lecture and heard him say that a magician should never ask another magician what is natural because he is adressing a tainted source. I believe that this is also true of opinions; ask the other magician whom you rspect but don't ignore the honest opinions of the layperson or sometime performer just because you don't like what you are hearing.

I would be willing to bet that Sylvester the jester did ask many people for their opinions in puting together his act and that he relied a great deal on feedback, both positive and negative, from his audiences over the years.

Have Fun !!!



Message: Posted by: truthteller (Jun 18, 2005 1:40pm)
Wand,

I don't like the use of the word "banned." My reason for posting in this thread has very little to do with Sylvester's act, but with the incorrect version of events given by Tom and perpetuated by others.

Let's say I as a booker hire an act. He is the best at doing what he does. I put him in a large room and his act doesn't play. Who knows why. It doesn't matter but let's say, that the props are too small. Now, do I "BAN" that person from working the room, or do I, as the booker, try to find a way for both of us to be succesful?
I give him a smaller room.

Now, if that performer changes up his act and makes it so it starts playing in the bigger room, I know I would be happy to see if we could get him in there.

The Castle is a very forgiving place. They realize that it often takes performers a couple of nights to find the tempo of a room, particularly performers who only work there once a year. Each room at the Castle has a very different feel and it takes a different approach to be succesful in each.

Ron did not BAN Sylvester. He saw a long standing problem, not just one week, of an act that consistently did not receive the response it should in a particular room. Ron made a decision which was good for both parties. Dan is still scheduled to work the Castle but in a room in which his act should be better received. No one was BANNED.

Let's keep the record straight.

Thanks for posting, I appreciate your viewpoints.

Brad

Message: Posted by: wand (Jun 18, 2005 2:02pm)
You may not like the term but it is exactly, by definition, what happened. The word has middle english roots in the term "bannen" which means to prohibit, summon or restrict.

By telling Sylvester that he can no longer perform in the palace, Ron Wilson is prohibiting/restricting him from doing so with an official decree which in this case would be whatever method the castle uses to let performers know that they are not allowed to perform in a certain room...in other words, he is banning Sylvester in the same way that certain libraries restrict/prohibit...BAN certain books.

This could also be construed, in my opinion, as a form of censorship which by definition means to control what information the populace has access to whether it's entertainment, art, literature, etc. There are as evidenced by some of the above posts a lot of people who liked the show and to deprive them of it in the near future is, again, in my opinion, censorship.

Since this thing is getting way off the original topic we can continue here and bore all of the other readers or we can pm.

Message: Posted by: wand (Jun 18, 2005 2:08pm)
Woo-Hoo!!!! I'm to 25 posts!!! Just 2,754 more and my opinions will matter!!!!!!