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Topic: Best forces with Jumbo deck
Message: Posted by: Atom3581 (Jan 5, 2007 11:01AM)
I just use this one and I don't know what it is called. Reverse second and third card from top of pack. Pull cards off face of pack and ask for spec. to call stop. When they do reverse upper portion of deck and place it back to back with lower portion. Spread cards slowly and first face down card will be the force card.
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Jan 5, 2007 08:26PM)
Just my opinion, but I wouldn't call that "best."
Message: Posted by: tdowell2007 (Jan 10, 2007 10:48AM)
A pop eyed popper deck works very well and appears very fair to the spec. Just a thought.
Tony
Message: Posted by: Larry Davidson (Jan 19, 2007 08:22PM)
Tony, I share that thought.

Larry
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Jan 19, 2007 09:54PM)
I use a Jumbo Pop Eyed popper in one of my stage routines. As the previous esteemed posters have noted, it works great.
Message: Posted by: Frank Starsini (Jan 19, 2007 11:13PM)
When I grow up I want to know what the pop eyed popper is and I want to be esteemed.

frank
Message: Posted by: Doug Arden (Jan 20, 2007 09:52AM)
Frank:

You'll never grow up and you already are esteemed.

Doug
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 23, 2007 05:24PM)
For large cards, it's hard to beat a rough/smooth setup for forcing.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Atom3581 (Feb 21, 2007 02:12PM)
I am talking about an ungimmicked force. Who has a better method than the one I posted?
Message: Posted by: BrianMillerMagic (Feb 21, 2007 02:14PM)
Use a simple cross cut force for a large/jumbo deck of cards. The force is effective with regular cards, and even more effective with jumbos. Like anytime you use a cross cut, you just need a few seconds of time misdirection before showing the force card.
Message: Posted by: Frank Starsini (Feb 21, 2007 02:32PM)
I vote for rough and smooth or a block of duplicates on top. Spread the block and have someone just touch any one.

Of course, the trick itself will usually dictate what the best mehtod is.

Some methods won't make sense for a given effect.

The now esteemed,
Frank
Message: Posted by: Atom3581 (Mar 17, 2007 12:53AM)
I said ungimmicked. No dupes!!!
Message: Posted by: moilima (Apr 10, 2007 07:00AM)
A glide force, if you have a table, will work just fine.

Posted: Apr 10, 2007 7:01am
BTW, if you don't have a table you can always use spectator's hands
Message: Posted by: Julie (Apr 10, 2007 03:01PM)
The easiest never fail and always fool 'em force with jumbo's is to have the force card face down on top of the deck. Fan the deck face down and ask your helper to "touch" any card. Then ask him/her to remove it from the deck, but to "be sure to keep it face down so I can't see it." note: as you close the fan get a break under the top (to be forced) card.

Almost immediately take the selected (indifferent) card and place it face down on top of the deck. "You could have selected any card, but this is the one you wanted, is that right, Mary?" Now pick up the top two cards as one and show the selected card to your helper and the rest of the audience.

Presented in a matter-of-fact manner this simple handling works everytime!

Julie
Message: Posted by: gadfly3d (Apr 10, 2007 04:25PM)
Actually the reverse card ide in the first post is good but I use a double back card, which can be 2 cards glued face to face. Can then also be used as a single cut force, like the cut deeper but with on cut.
Message: Posted by: kammagic (May 27, 2007 11:13PM)
Walgreen's sells jumbo decks that are in between a regular deck and a standard jumbo deck. With little practice you can perform many of the sleights you can do with a regular deck. So hindu force, riffle force, bluff pass, slip force ....ect. are all possible.

Julie,

I use the force you mentioned with full size jumbos quite often and it works great. I use it with regular size cards all the time. It is a very clean and fair force.
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (May 28, 2007 12:52PM)
[quote]
On 2007-05-27 23:13, kammagic wrote:
Walgreen's sells jumbo decks that are in between a regular deck and a standard jumbo deck. With little practice you can perform many of the sleights you can do with a regular deck. So hindu force, riffle force, bluff pass, slip force ....ect. are all possible.

Julie,

I use the force you mentioned with full size jumbos quite often and it works great. I use it with regular size cards all the time. It is a very clean and fair force.
[/quote]
El Duco sell Anglo Cards, that are twice the size of a poker deck, with indices that are much larger than on Jumbo Bicycles, and allow you to do many sleights. I understand that they have a nice finish on them, too.
Message: Posted by: Roy (Jun 4, 2007 06:14AM)
The Criss-Cross force.....

Seriously: Aldo Colombini has a easy beutiful force that can be done with Jumbo deck.
Message: Posted by: closeupcardician (Jun 4, 2007 05:40PM)
The Cross-Cut force is simple yet poweful esp. in this context.
Message: Posted by: JSBLOOM (Jun 23, 2007 05:32PM)
Will this work?
Have card to be forces, face up 2nd from top.
Have spectator pick up a block and turn them face up and place on top.
Message: Posted by: Jaz (Jun 25, 2007 06:06PM)
'Criss-Cross Force'.
'Hindu Force'.
Ed Balducci’s 'Cut Deeper Force'.
'Riffle Force'.
Message: Posted by: closeupcardician (Aug 25, 2007 11:50PM)
[quote]
On 2007-06-23 17:32, JSBLOOM wrote:
Will this work?
Have card to be forces, face up 2nd from top.
Have spectator pick up a block and turn them face up and place on top.

[/quote]

Could you elaborate a little more? with the exception of the reversed card you just described the first action in Ed Balducci's "Cut-Deeper" force.
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Aug 26, 2007 03:37AM)
I say it all rides on the trick you are presenting.. The only time I force a jumbo card is after I show the deck to be all queens of clubs, unknown to my helper..

The comedic aspect of this covers the blatant force I use.. I just slide down the top card an inch in my hand and ''second deal'' every card showing its face to the audience.. This is funny...

Whenever they say stop I replace the top card correctly and voila.. their selected card...

If not.... what could be more fair then letting a spectator cut to any card??? criss cross is a fooler... no doubt about it...
Message: Posted by: AnthonyMaze (Aug 27, 2007 04:59AM)
If I am correct in this... please don't crucify me if Im wrong because I'm not a magical history wiz, but is it the Hofzinger spread force where your forcing the bottom card which the spectator thinks is the same card they touched on? Again I may be wrong on this, but I think Copperfield uses it for his Scorpion effect in his current show...

anyway... feel free to correct me if Im wrong, I have a tough exoskeleton (sp?) Did I mention I'm as bad at spelling as I am at magical history?!?!
Message: Posted by: jlevey (Aug 31, 2007 09:55PM)
I have used a Jumbo sets of Marked Bicycle cards for many years. This has worked well for me.

I seem to recall the name of the person that designed my sets as being "Kozar". I believe I bought them from the Camirand Academy way back when it had first opened shop in Longeuil, Quebec... but I'm dating myself.

They have served me well.

Just as an aside --I use standard Bicycle decks (unmarked) for almost all of my routines. The classic force is my M.O. in almost all situations. Works for me 99.999 percent of the time.

On the very rare occasion, it doesn't work, I have many (many) outs.

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Sep 2, 2007 08:43PM)
Classic with a jumbo?? How do you go about?
Message: Posted by: scottds80 (Sep 3, 2007 12:24AM)
Where could I buy jumbo cards with say, 26 or 52 duplicate cards? For a force deck of my own.

The bigger problem is that I need it to be the 3 of hearts. I don't know how I will find somewhere that sells a particular card that's duplicated.
Message: Posted by: jlevey (Sep 3, 2007 10:07PM)
Eric,

Although a not-so classic/classic force "is" possible with a Jumbo deck, I meant to say that I prefer using a regular size deck with a classic force.

Jonathan
Message: Posted by: Josh Chaikin (Sep 4, 2007 04:15PM)
Mark Mason has a nice force that can be done using a jumbo deck; in fact, I've seen it used in a competition the day after Mark's lecture.
Message: Posted by: Eric Leclerc (Sep 4, 2007 06:37PM)
Using an ungimmicked deck?
Message: Posted by: Josh Chaikin (Sep 6, 2007 12:52PM)
[quote]
On 2007-09-04 18:37, Eric Leclerc wrote:
Using an ungimmicked deck?
[/quote]

Yep, ungimmicked. I'm not sure I'd try that myself, but it works.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 20, 2009 10:27AM)
I found this thread in a search. I have a need to force 3 cards from a NORMAL jumbo deck. I recently picked up an old Albenice Rising Card Houlette. It works perfectly, and I'd like to use it.

The best idea I seem to have at the moment is to use the Criss-Cross Force and have the top 3 in a row selected. Any other ideas?
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Jan 20, 2009 06:32PM)
The fan force is particularly easy with a jumbo deck and you seem to get the three cards you need from random locations in the deck. Just to refresh your memory, the three cards to be forced are on the bottom (or get shuffled or placed there during your handling of the deck). You spread out a fan face down to have a card selected and simply tell the spectator to touch one card in the fan. Slide the first force card beneath the spot where he touched and separate the fan there, pushing the forced card out to replace the one he touched. You can do this for each of the three cards simply by going to spectators in different parts of the audience so no one sees what you are doing more than once.

If you need more description than that, you'll find the fan force described in detail with photos in The e-Book on "Forcing for First Years" in The Wizards' Journal #8 on my site. Not that you're a First Year Student, by any means.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 20, 2009 08:11PM)
A variant of the Hofzinser Spread Force? The deck seems to be a bit cumbersome, but I'll play. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Jan 20, 2009 10:47PM)
One way to bring the jumbo deck down to size is to start with the three force cards on the top of the deck, give it a false shuffle and/or cut and hand the deck to a spectator. Ask the spectator to think of a number between ten and twenty and to deal off that number of cards face-down into your hand. Now you have a smaller pack of cards to work with the the spectator has conveniently placed the three force cards on the bottom of the pack for you. There's more than one way to skin a Hofzinser.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 21, 2009 02:03AM)
Good thinking... thanks. I will need to do this with a pared down deck anyway, as the card houlette will hold about a full deck, but with the rising gimmick in place, that cuts down on available space.

The deck I'm using is new, so I may even treat them with fanning powder to see if that aids in the handling.
Message: Posted by: ladirector (Jan 26, 2009 09:09PM)
It is not difficult to Hindu Shuffle jumbo cards, the force card is on the bottom, as you shuffle ask the spectator to say stop, when he does, show the bottom card.
Message: Posted by: DanielCoyne (Jan 27, 2009 12:49AM)
Do you Hindu Shuffle onto a table? Maybe I have HUGE Jumbos or tiny hands, but there's no way I can Hindu shuffle to that the cards fall into my palm.

-Daniel
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Jan 27, 2009 01:25AM)
They should not be falling into your palm, even with a normal sized deck. They should be falling into your claw. Spread your fingers out and make a claw with them. That's what keeps them from falling to the table. Tilt your hands downward and away from you so that gravity forces them to fall into your claw and not slip out from the back of your hand.
Message: Posted by: DanielCoyne (Jan 27, 2009 03:53PM)
I think I'm doing what you say, but with Jumbo deck, my thumb and middle (or ring) finger can't reach around the sides of the deck from underneath in order to pull off packets from the top and let them fall into what's left of my claw.

I'm not trying to be ornery, I truly am not able to figure out what/how you're doing this with a big deck. I love the Hindu Shuffle force, and it would be great to be able to use that with my jumbo deck.

This is not my video, but it shows more or less what I do with a regular deck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSJuqr8ZerM

Thanks,
Daniel
Message: Posted by: ladirector (Jan 27, 2009 07:59PM)
Perhaps it's the size of your hands. Maybe this isn't for you. Years ago I knew a guy who was able to do a convincing classic force with a jumbo deck, no matter how hard I tried I couldn't hold the break and spread the cards due to the size of my hands.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Jan 29, 2009 08:40PM)
Thanks for your post, ladirector. I am looking to force three cards for use with an old Albenice Rising Card Houlette (like the Hathaway method). I have something now that will work, but I'm never opposed to looking further!
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Jan 30, 2009 07:28AM)
Daniel: Plan B - Try it with half a deck of cards. If it works, you can always have the spectator cut the deck about in half. Have him (or her) point to one of the halves. Use magician's choice to pick up the bottom half and do the Hindu shuffle with that. If it still is too much for your hands, on to....

Plan C: Try some half-size jumbos. I have found decks in the Dollar Store that are smaller than standard jumbos... about a half size smaller. If you can't find them, on to....

Plan D: Use a regular sized deck with jumbo indexes.
Message: Posted by: Scott F. Guinn (Feb 2, 2009 11:45PM)
The cut deeper force is very easy and effective, as is Gary Ouellet's Touch Force, from Close Up Illusions.

Under the spread force with bottom card is also very easy and would work well for the force of multiple cards.

The clock force and the "nine" force are very easy, too (no "handling" at all), though somewhat contrived and time consuming.

A Tenkai Turnover could easily be used as a force.

With a bit of practice, a slip force is quite do-able.

I have used the classic force many times with a jumbo deck.

Here's another very easy and effective force: Force card is at face of deck Draw off the top and bottom cards together (it's OK if a few more cards come along for the ride) and replace at bottom. Repeat until spectator says stop, and then show the face card.

Another good one for multipe force cards: Put them at the face of the deck. Bevel the side of the deck widely, top card furthest to right. Underneath the deck, slide the face card to the right such that it is almost even with uppermost card. Riffle down side of deck til spec says stop. Pull out cards below break, slipped card coalescing at face of right-hand packet, show as selection and replace this packet on top of left packet. Repeat with other force cards.

Etc, etc, etc...
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Smith (Feb 14, 2009 02:46AM)
A short card can be used as a key above the to be forced card(s) for a two handed riffle force.
Message: Posted by: Mike Carroll (Feb 26, 2009 09:10PM)
The good old cross cut force does it for me, followed by a bit of my trademark witty reparte. They don't notice a thing, except the pull dangling from my sleeve.
Message: Posted by: RickThibau (Jun 15, 2009 05:44PM)
I use the above. Both of them requires some management.
Most practical: CROSS CUT
'Better' (requires some management): Any Timming Force (ribbon spread or fan)

The timming force gets better with cards face down (since they are jumbo cards it is easy to spot the smallest pencil dot in the forced card).
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Jun 15, 2009 06:31PM)
As long as this thread is still going strong, I should mention that a nice range force is included with Jim Gerrish's "Brainpower" effect in The Wizards' Journal #12. It looks so natural and innocent that few would even suspect that the card has been forced. A range force, for those who have not read "Forcing" from The Wizards' Journal #8, where further examples are given, is a force of more than one choice at a time... a range of choices. The "Brainpower" force can easily be performed with a jumbo deck.
Message: Posted by: mumford (Jun 17, 2009 12:08PM)
Force Deck, or rough cards with every other card as force if you want to cleanly show the faces.
Message: Posted by: G. (Jul 2, 2009 07:50AM)
A cut deeper force is very effective and deceptive, for the jumbo ungimmicked deck.
Message: Posted by: Spellbinder (Jul 5, 2009 10:34AM)
I just released my version of U.F. Grant's Space Thought... an oddly named method of forcing a single card from a jumbo (or ultra jumbo) deck or pack of cards. A photo can be seen on my site in The Wizards' Journal #18, but neither the photo nor the name tells you precisely how clever a force this is for either a single card or for a range of cards. The spectator seems to have a completely free choice (or choices). The chosen card is isolated in a see-though houlette that is little more than a frame. The prediction has been made well in advance and written on a whiteboard (or slate if you prefer). It doesn't SEEM to be a force and yet...
Message: Posted by: DustinF (Aug 9, 2009 02:08AM)
I would use a cross cut force. This force also has the advantage that you don't have to touch the cards when you do it.
Message: Posted by: magicbenyoung (May 25, 2010 11:32PM)
I'd go with the Cut Deeper force. Seems very random and fair.
Message: Posted by: steez (Jun 30, 2010 04:56PM)
Riffle force
Message: Posted by: msmaster (Jun 30, 2010 05:08PM)
Steez, exactly what is your handling and exactly how large of hands do you need to do a traditional riffle force with a jumbo deck?
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Jul 8, 2010 04:06PM)
[quote]
On 2009-01-20 22:47, Spellbinder wrote:
One way to bring the jumbo deck down to size is to start with the three force cards on the top of the deck, give it a false shuffle and/or cut and hand the deck to a spectator. Ask the spectator to think of a number between ten and twenty and to deal off that number of cards face-down into your hand. Now you have a smaller pack of cards to work with the the spectator has conveniently placed the three force cards on the bottom of the pack for you. There's more than one way to skin a Hofzinser.
[/quote]
I'd then tell the spectator to deal the cards into three piles. The force cards are then right where you want them.
Message: Posted by: Steven Choi (Dec 27, 2010 11:31AM)
So I saw some prfessionals suggested Jumbo Pop-Eyed Popper Deck, can I choose the forced card or it is fixed by manufacturer? since I am going to order one:)

thanks

Steven
Message: Posted by: Brent McLeod (May 20, 2011 02:47AM)
[quote]
On 2009-08-09 02:08, DustinF wrote:
I would use a cross cut force. This force also has the advantage that you don't have to touch the cards when you do it.
[/quote]

I agree with above-as a Professional performer in over 100 theatre shows a year
I can vouch for the simplicity of this method,gimickless..-albeit a bit of timed misdirection while talking!!

Brent
Message: Posted by: JeremyTan (Oct 15, 2011 02:32PM)
I guess it all boils down to presentation. Audiences themselves know for a fact know that jumbo cards are hard to handle.. Keep it simple.. Under the spread force is pretty decent if you ask me.. =)
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Sep 10, 2012 03:47PM)
I am working on the Creature Shock illusion, and have a jumbo deck of cards with animal names. I will need to end up forcing TWO or maybe THREE of the cards at different times.

So far the best thing I have come up with is a glide force each time... or should I try a different force each time. The fact that I have to do this three times seems to rule out classic force, cross cut, hindo, cut deeper, etc.

Any ideas?
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Sep 10, 2012 10:46PM)
[quote]
On 2010-07-08 16:06, Alan Munro wrote:
[quote]
On 2009-01-20 22:47, Spellbinder wrote:
One way to bring the jumbo deck down to size is to start with the three force cards on the top of the deck, give it a false shuffle and/or cut and hand the deck to a spectator. Ask the spectator to think of a number between ten and twenty and to deal off that number of cards face-down into your hand. Now you have a smaller pack of cards to work with and the spectator has conveniently placed the three force cards on the bottom of the pack for you. There's more than one way to skin a Hofzinser.
[/quote]
I'd then tell the spectator to deal the cards into three piles. The force cards are then right where you want them.
[/quote]

There's your answer. Just read the posts. You now have three piles of cards dealt by the spectator onto the table, with the force cards on top of each pile (three, four, however many you want...within reason). If the backs are marked in a way only you will notice, you even know which card is which and all that remains is the reveal.
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Sep 11, 2012 03:44PM)
Hi there, I read all the posts, but in my case I have to force a card, do some stuff, force another card, produce a bunny, force another card and then handle the gorilla arm finale. So I was in doubt that the "three pile" thing would work across all that action. In other words, people might basically forget what the piles were for. If someone thinks that this method would be OK please let me know...

I was thinking maybe a cross cut force for the first card, then a fan force, then a glide force... something like that. I'm a little hesitant to do all the jumbo card handling in the middle of such a chaotic situation on stage. Anyone got a better idea?
Message: Posted by: jimgerrish (Sep 12, 2012 12:17AM)
In your routine, is it possible to force the three cards, one after another, as described above, and have three spectators slide the jumbo (force) cards into three separate envelopes without showing anyone what the cards are? Then they could hold onto the three envelopes until you want them to reveal to the audience which card they chose. And if that works for you, you could even use switching envelopes to exchange any three randomly chosen cards for the three force cards, but don't let the spectators peek at the cards until after the switch has been made.
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Sep 20, 2012 01:52AM)
Here's a strange observation. In my case, the cards have animal names stenciled on the face. So if you fan them you see nothing, it's all white. So the fan force with the top card moving underneath the face up fan is very deceptive. They touch a card but they all look the same, you just break the fan there, flip the stack over and they take their card...
Message: Posted by: magicman491 (Sep 20, 2012 07:46AM)
Hindu force? or rough and smooth
Message: Posted by: billappleton (Oct 2, 2012 12:33PM)
After much experimentation I have adapted a version of the Slip Force for jumbo cards.

First hold the deck in your left hand by the bottom half, thumb on one side and fingers on the other. The bottom card will be facing your left palm.

Then use the palm of your right hand to bevel the cards, pushing them up from the bottom. I push the bevel up maybe three inches. Secretly pull the top card back down somewhat, that is the force card.

Next lay the jumbo deck long ways gripped in the cradle of your left hand. Your left thumb will run along the bottom card and long dimension of the deck, your left fingers will be touching the top force card. The bevel will be pointing away from your body and off to the right.

Use the right index finger to riffle through the cards until the spectator says stop. During this motion place the right thumb on the back of the top force card to prevent any accidents. Then pick off the top card stack with the right hand and drop the left hand and present the bottom stack to the spectator. Execute the slip force in the middle of this motion. Your left hand should just be able to turn palm up and present the stack of cards, you can move your left hand into a claw position to hold the loose stack.

This is a little strange in that the bottom card and riffled card are visible during the selection process, but very good in that (1) you are forcing the top card of the deck and (2) the selction process is clearly visible from stage and (3) the spectator is allowed to pick their selected card off the stack in a normal way.