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Topic: Funny Money by Brad Ross

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 1:10pm) Hey Folks, I just wanted you to know that I purchased a brand new never used funny money from a great Café member and when I went to print them out on Brad's site he refused to print them. He said since I bought it from another person it is an illegal version and he will not print and I cannot use it either. I'm very dissapointed in his response and unwillingness to work with me. He would have made some big bucks from me down the road. Oh well.., Your forewarned. Mike :)

Message: Posted by: Stevethomas (Jan 16, 2011 1:18pm) Yikes. Steve

Message: Posted by: EventEntertainer (Jan 16, 2011 1:29pm) Dispite the fact he says he'd customize them for $35? Wow!

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 1:33pm) Yup. Despite the fact he copied them (pressumably with permission) from another creators work. I bought it and was giving him the business for printing them. I'm truly dissapointed. plus I'd probably buy some of his other stuff.

Message: Posted by: EventEntertainer (Jan 16, 2011 1:41pm) I'll customize em for ya :)

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 1:42pm) Thanks! I have them all made up and ready to print. He won't let me! I was ready to order over a 1,000 of these.

Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 16, 2011 1:45pm) Maybe the original product has a non-transferable license. (That's to prevent the first / original owner from making copies of the master copy, and selling them to other entertainers to reproduce. Or making copies to keep for themself, and selling off the original.) David (EventEntertainer) and I once had to transfer a license on a product, and I was grateful that I was able to get permission from the creator. He didn't have to do that because the wording on the license said it was non-transferable. Some product creators don't want to transfer the license, especially when asked after the fact. Several info products and clip art pieces have licenses, with conditions on them (like one owner only). - Donald

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 1:57pm) Thanks for the input Donald. I do understand that and if we both knew this I would not have bought it nor would I have asked him to print them. Most would try and work with you. Brad said buy it from me and I'll print and you can use them. To me poor customer service and a person I wouldn't want to work with in the future. Just my two cents. AND I don't complain, ever. :) Mike :)

Message: Posted by: EventEntertainer (Jan 16, 2011 1:58pm) There is no disclaimer in the ad to my knowledge. Most liscences and conditions should be listed upfront.

Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 16, 2011 2:04pm) I agree that the condition of a license should be stated up front, and not hidden or discovered after you bought the product. But I've seen some that were hidden or discovered after you bought the product. I think that sometimes the creators just assume people are going to use it, and not re-sell it, and don't make a fuss about the license up front. Or they assume most people know about licenses. They also know that it might kill some sales. Is there a license agreement in the files on the disk, or at the checkout? The original purchaser would have been exposed to both of those. BTW, there are lots of people who don't read the license they agree to. For example, I've seen lots of people post on the Café, ignoring things in the membership rules. It's because they didn't read them. They just ticked the box and pressed forward. So, it can be both the creator's or the consumer's fault. - Donald P.S. I bought a DVD set from Brad Ross at one time. After getting it, there was a piece of paper that stated that the DVDs were all wrapped. If I broke a seal to watch even a single DVD, I couldn't return it for a refund. (I think exchanges were allowed for defective products.) It didn't say that on his website up front. But I was ok with that condition, because it's normal for DVDs. And of course, some comment about not copying the DVDs (duh!). I don't remember if that product has a non-transferrable license.

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 2:30pm) Hey, David is correct. I checked the manual and his advertisement in his site and nowhere does he mention a license. Check it out. http://www.makemagicmoney.com/dollarbill.htm Mike

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 2:38pm) Ps- based on no license, I see, it looks like I can print these up elsewhere, yippee. Does anyone know a good printing company?

Message: Posted by: EventEntertainer (Jan 16, 2011 2:47pm) Not Brad Ross...

Message: Posted by: Stevethomas (Jan 16, 2011 2:49pm) Express Printing, Jackson, Mississippi. Ask for John. Tell him Steve Thomas sent ya. He's a magician, as well, and knows exactly what you're looking for. Steve

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 2:51pm) Good old Brad said he will draft a letter from his lawyer if I "pursue using the illegal copy." I'll stick with Michael Messings as it's his creation anyway. I'll just add my own color like Brad Unbelievable. He would have made $200 from me today just to print them.

Message: Posted by: Acecardician (Jan 16, 2011 3:33pm) I like these better: and you can get them here: http://www.photobucks.com/ Right now 1000 are just $179. (I am not affiliated with this company other than a repeat costomer) People will put these in their wallets and hold on to them for years. I have people show them to me years later. My banker has one on the wall behind her desk and asked for more to give to clients. All the local stores I do business with have them and ask for more. These are the size of a real $. And the color and texture are professional. People will not tend to keep a large oversize bill, they will toss it out like a flier. You can do money tricks with them and give them away. Not as obtrusive as giving away a business card, which will probably also be thrown away. I also put some in my mail outs last year and teachers put them on bulletin boards in schools and daycares. ACE

Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Jan 16, 2011 3:50pm) And Mr Ross' was the $100 setup? I was perfectly happy with that great $12 setup sold a bit ago on the Café. If there was no contract constrictions on the buy in, there's none after the buy in. You cannot unilaterally add your own wants to a contract that has been signed, nor (as in a purchase) add constrictions where none were before. ASK for that lawyer letter...it'll cost him $100 to have it drawn up, and, of course, it's useless. What, he's gonna sue you over intellectual infringement? That'll cost him $60,000 to start, and he'll lose. Turn it into a Bluff-Slamdown. Life's too short not to have fun with things like this.

Message: Posted by: EventEntertainer (Jan 16, 2011 4:21pm) I wholeheartedly agree with Tom. I would ask for a letter as well.

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 4:22pm) Lol. I have asked for the letter. We'll see. :)

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 4:42pm) I bought the $12 set up as well and loved it. I like having some color ao bought a never used one on the Café. Had them custom made up by a great guy and sent them to Brad to be printed. The funny thing is he would have made more money from me just through printing alone. I have a ton of stuff I was sending him. I simply do not get it. Well, I requested the letter. I'm sire he'll deliver but at least he'll update his site and advertising (I hope) to inform people of this restriction. For the record, I'm fine with the restrictions just doesn't seem to exist and I obviously did not know as I was going to him for more business. His loss I guess.

Message: Posted by: DreamBig (Jan 16, 2011 6:30pm) I've recently seen a Café member post WTB this and WTB that. Then a week later has the same stuff he requested for sale on the Café. Hmmmmmmmm.

Message: Posted by: Donald Dunphy (Jan 16, 2011 7:00pm) I know that a person can't re-sell / copy PDF files in most cases (copyright), and the files are PDFs for this product. Were you sent the original disk (with the PDFs on it), or were files sent by email? That may be stance that Brad is taking. - Donald

Message: Posted by: BradRossMagic (Jan 16, 2011 7:06pm) Good afternoon folks. Brad Ross here. Just wanted to chime in myself since the is some confusion. First off, the Funny Money is copyright 2009 to Illusionary Magic LLC. It even says so on the template itself in small font on the backside to prevent this from happening. It should go without saying that rather than starting a fight between two fellow magicians - if one finds out the license was sold by someone else who does not have the right to sell it - then he should do he right thing and Contact the original seller for a refund. Donald is correct. This is a non transferable item. I thought there was a common courtesy among magicians not to rip off each others work. This is my design and my copyrighted item - I hope You all can respect that. I certainly respect others. I've now spent way too much time arguing with Mike. Mike I'll end by leaving the ball in your court. If you are an honorable and upstanding member of our brotherhood you will know what the right thing to do is. If you're not... Well that's on you for making an unethical choice to print these. ALSO let it be know I was willing to discuss this with Mike via phone several times and my offer was declined several times In fact I'm happy to hold a conference call with any of you who have issues with my Funny Money Bills. I've always only heard all positives. Yours in ethical magic business, Brad Ross Http://www.makemagicmoney.com P.s. Why wold anon buy the license to reproduce this and NOT use it?

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 7:42pm) "P.s. Why wold anon buy the license to reproduce this and NOT use it?". That's the exact point Brad. No one knows you are buying a license. Like I mentioned in our email discussions you might want to make this clearer in your advertising and packaging of your funny money. I decided not to speak with you on the phone because of your tone in your emails and threatening a lawyer. Didn't feel like arguing. Others pm'd me with similiar experiences with you and got nowhere. Some very good people too. It just wasn't worth my time. I have dealt with numerous people both in sales, creation of effects, and purchases. I'm surprised by your actions. You appeared very nice and maybe you are. This experience, like many others with you, have been bad. You can be sure your dollars won't be used by me. Take care. Mike :)

Message: Posted by: mrunge (Jan 16, 2011 8:55pm) Do what you want to Mike. Follow Tom's advice above. Everyone, including you, will sleep just fine at night. Mark. :goodluck:

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 16, 2011 9:01pm) Thanks Mark! I appreciate the support. Mike :)

Message: Posted by: Acecardician (Jan 17, 2011 1:08am) Forget the bickering and not wanteing to share, just order the bills from http://www.photobucks.com/ There will be NO hassle, and they are a "one million" percent better marketing tool than the big bills. I KNOW people will keep them longer, if not forever. I will make no money on this suggestion, I am just willing to help others, and this is the best, I should have kept this to myself, but I am not tooooo selfish(just a little bit, lol) and in this case I will share one of my best marketing tools, and I do over 300 shows a year, just my million dollars(not 2 cents) worth, ACE

Message: Posted by: EventEntertainer (Jan 17, 2011 10:10am) http://www.printamillion.com/ Is the best source of Million Dollar Bills I can think of!

Message: Posted by: mike storz (Jan 17, 2011 10:29am) Thanks David and Ace! It appears Brad cannot produce a license so I guess I have the freedom to print away... :) however, it looks like your suggestion is the direction I will go. I have bad feelings towards his products now and it has been reinforced by other unhappy customers. Thanks to all who have personally emailed me in support and to all for the suggestions. Many of you know that I'm not a trouble maker and if I came across as one I truly apologize. If I feel I'm not being treated fairly I will share my thoughts just to help others avoid the same problems in the future. If I at all felt I was cheating Brad, why would I register on his site, provide him with all of my personal information, and request his help with printing the bills, and be willing to pay him hundreds of dollars upfront as well as in the future to produce the bills. He truly missed out on future revenues because as most of you know I have a spending problems with magic and magic products!!! :) lol... Again, many thanks to all! Mike :)

Message: Posted by: mrunge (Jan 17, 2011 11:37am) :thumbsup: Mark.

Message: Posted by: Landry (Mar 24, 2011 7:24pm) You keep saying Brad will not produce a license but I checked the back of the bill and it does say copyright 2009. It seems to me that the fault does not lie with Brad Ross but with the person that sold you this product without informing you of the copyright. You had no way of knowing because the person didn't tell you. You made a bad choice based on misinformation or lack of information - it happens. Why does that make it Brad's problem or responsibility to make it right. You should be going to the person that sold it to you and getting satisfaction there. This is like simple ethics. Richard

Message: Posted by: Futureal (Oct 23, 2011 6:03pm) Interesting thread about Brad Ross : http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=321225&forum=44 He also has a Merlin Award, so that may raise some questions of ethics right there.

Message: Posted by: jdallassmith (Jan 14, 2012 9:02pm) I have ordered Pose Cards and Book Marks from Brad Ross on his The Magic Printer Site and have not received ant confirmation or time estimate. I have sent emails and left messages with no answers, now I am approaching the time I need all of my promo material and will have to re-order from a reputable company, as far I am concerned he is a scam artist.

Message: Posted by: Futureal (Nov 26, 2012 6:58am) - did you ever get your stuff?

Message: Posted by: Christopher Starr (Toronto) (Feb 24, 2013 8:00pm) As a legitimate purchaser of Brad's dollar bills I think he is totally right in enforcing his copyright! You can not expect to buy something and have the same rights as the original purchaser. That's just common sense. The licence is less than a hundred bucks, so why would you want to rip Brad off! Don't you believe in giving the creator the small fee he asks for, so that he can contine to produce items that you will want to buy? I bet you steal software too! Where's the ethics in magic I keep hearing about, and why is there so few defenders of this principle posted here?