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JJP161 Special user Columbus, Ohio 509 Posts |
I'll start by saying that I've nerver performed any table hoping or restaurant work ever. But I do aspire to do so someday, after much, much practice. My question and I'm certain being such an open ended question that the response will vary greatly but nonetheless be a tremendous help to me, but what would be the Perfect or Ideal table hoping routine, the most magical and entertaining. Magical, practical, easy to reset, not all cards but a mix. Just give me a baseline so I know what direction to head, what effects to learn, practice and master. So far I'm thinking the Destination Box would be the perfect finale and Zander's Precious Metal sounds like it would make a good opener, but what do I do in the middle? Or hey if I'm already heading down the wrong road tell me know. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank-you.
Joe |
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Randwill Inner circle 1914 Posts |
As long as you open big and close bigger it don't matter what you do in the middle. Well, so goes an old showbiz axiom. Not a very good one to go by in my opinion.
You are on the right track my little friend. That Spoon-to-Fork dealy is a good bet for the restaurant table hopper. And a card, or other object, to impossible location is a good closer. (Vanish the object, then do another unrelated trick before you reveal it.) Try to pick material that doesn't require a table. See the other post nearby titled "Table Space" for my feelings on this. Sponge Balls or Bunnies, while pooed-pooed by some, have been around a long time for a good reason. They work. Cards, coins and something else as recommended by Johnny Ace Palmer is a pretty good philosophy. But don't miss the bigger picture. Notice that there are over 4000 topics in Tricks & Effects on this board and only 200 or so in The Words We Use section. That's 'cause most of the kids here are interested in buying magic tricks, not entertaining people. I hope they don't delete this reply because it's going to contain the biggest secret in magic. (And boy howdy, they get itchy if you say mirror instead of m****r around here.) The biggest secret in magic is . . . Ready. Take a breath. Especially all you guys trying to get your Gilligan's Bottle to work or silence your clanky $400 self-levitation contraptions. The secret is....it doesn't matter what tricks you do. That's right. Your audience couldn't care less that you paid $1500 for a rare set of brass cups. Or that you are the first magician in your club to have that $300 wallet that bends coins. (Hurry, hurry! Only 175 will be made!) Half the "performers" out there calling themselves magicians are too in love with their magic fetish objects, and the other half with their knuckle busting skills. Most can't talk and ab lib and be themselves and laugh with their audiences and create an emotional reaction from the most jaded spectator. The ones that can are called pros. So look at what the pros do. Not many of 'em performing the Hot Rod or the newest here-today-gone-tomorrow plastic and rubberband contraption designed to trick you out of another $50. Go watch Michael Close do The Frog Prince from Very Very Close Volume 3. My advice would be to aspire to something like this. A real fooler that evokes an emotional reaction from the spectators. But sorry. It's not a *thing* in a plastic bag. It's a presentation you have to learn and practice. And bring some of yourself to. Buy books and DVDs. Not tricks. Except that Spoon-to-Fork thing. That's cool. And it's better to buy it than spend your valuable practice time making one. |
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Alym Amlani Inner circle Canada 1464 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-17 00:11, Randwill wrote: You have hit the nail right on the head my friend. Magicians are entertainers. That's the bottom line. Be genuine with your audience, treat everyone with respect, and know your stuff cold - if you get that far, you'll be 90% there.
Logic Defied
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rumburak New user 83 Posts |
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The secret is....it doesn't matter what tricks you do. You have given the real secret of magic away! Shame on you! Why do you reveal this in an open forum? Seriously ... I could not agree more. Don't learn gazillions of tricks and effects. Learn a few - and do them well. That's the true secret |
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sjdavison Inner circle Surrey, UK 1379 Posts |
Exactly right gents.
That said, of course you should not ignore the technical aspect of magic - it has to be deceptive. But that is pointless unless you can entertain, and they must like YOU, not just your tricks. Here lies the rub. I will not repeat ad nauseam what has just been said on personality/scripting. However, in response to your initial query on 'routines', I would suggest performing effects that YOU enjoy. If you enjoy performing it, it will show through in your performances. Work on what you have, do not be fooled into buying the next greatest trick (although we've all done it!). Mr Burger writes on the fact that the cornerstone of his work are not new tricks, but the very effects he started with - he works on the presentation. I hope this in someway helps, good luck - and enjoy it! The your audiences will too. Simon |
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Ross W Inner circle UK 1779 Posts |
Uuhhh - Randwill! Where have you been lurking with your 100 posts? You have just spoken more sense in 20 lines than half of the rest of this site's bandwidth.
There was a show in the UK recently - Faking It - in which a newcomer had to convince an audience and a panel of experts that he was an experienced magician. TO make it harder to judge, he was placed in a show with other real pros. The audience liked him the best and the experts were all fooled. Why? His tricks were not difficult. But he had personality and he made the audience have fun, and they liked him for it. As for myself, I am in a constant battle with myself NOT to buy new tricks, but to refine the ones I already know. My last purchase was a real disappointment... |
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Mesquita Special user 917 Posts |
Randwill, you tell everything that any beginner, intermediate...or even "ADVANCED" 'magicians' need to know.
So JJP161, read as many book, about theory and presentation, as you can. Try to start with ASCANIO Vol 1(La magia de Ascanio-> The Magic of Ascanio), you will learn what to do to make your presentation better, not just for restaurants....but for your entire life. All the best, :bikes: Mesquita
"Siempre somos tres me acompaña la luna y me sigue mi sombra" René Lavand
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C Christian Loyal user 288 Posts |
I Really like what Randwill said I would like add (Add I have posted this befor) That it's OK to learn as much magic as your heart desires, granted you will only be pooling from a selected few. But as you grow you will be more capable to do the thing that are more you because you have more to choose from. This goes with Close-up magic and Stage. How can you be YOU if you only learn 5 tricks? Do take a look at the greats, Yes they have there set acts but they didn't get there by just learning those few tricks. Most will tell you they Studied inside and out books like Tarbell.
I'd like to think of myself as a Pro and I still find things that make me go Hmmmm I should by that book or DVD and study that. So yes do everything Randwill said just keep learning cheers chris |
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ksalaz1 Loyal user 237 Posts |
Randwill,
I don't know what to say. I was just thinking the same thing, went to the magic Café, and was going to start a topic on "Routine questions are stupid unless you plan to entertain" when I saw your post. I have seen magicians bore the hell out of people because they have their routine TOO well down pat. There is no human interaction. I perform every week at restaurants and now, I don't even think of a routine. It is more like Jazz. If I see people are interested more in cards, I go in that direction, if they are screamers, I go with the Sponge things, if Mental, well, if their mental, I stay clear. But if they like mentalist effects, I move toward that. Ken
"Master of the Obvious"
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jolyonjenkins Inner circle United Kingdom 1181 Posts |
Ross - when was this Faking It? Very recently? I missed it.
Jolyon Jenkins
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jcigam Special user Bellevue, Nebraska 512 Posts |
I am not sure who said this or exactly how it was said but it sort of sums up Randwill's post, "An amateur magician does a lot of tricks for the same people, a professional magician does the same tricks for a lot of people."
However, I have to disagree with the statement that it doesn't matter what tricks you perform. I don't care if you are the master of Chameleon Coins, I am not going to like it. That tells me that some people are going to expect a little more than you knowing your magic really well. Jered S.
"The mind has exactly the same power as the hand, not merely to grasp the world, but to change it."
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
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On 2005-06-17 14:26, ksalaz1 wrote: Ken, I have the opposite opinion. I don't think it's possible to have a routine down "too well." The most challenging part for me is sounding fresh when performing routines that I have down well and that I've used forever. Larry |
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Tony Noice Veteran user 342 Posts |
Larry,
I agree completely. Acting is the art of saying exactly the same words at every performance but really meaning them (or, as some actors say, "Newly minting them") every time. And a magician who is a bad actor can't be a very good magician. |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Tony, well said.
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Alym Amlani Inner circle Canada 1464 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-23 21:00, Larry Davidson wrote: Although I see both of your points, the problem for MANY performers who learn routines down to the line is that they forget their improvisational skills and often don't interact as much with the audience...I prefer to have a set of guidelines to use, rather than a fixed patter so that even though I'm working from somewhat of a memorized script, I still can have that room to improvise. This also comes in handy for those "oh sh*t" moments where something goes wrong and you have to work on the spot...
Logic Defied
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
When you have it down well, it allows you to interact more because the script is automatic. Thus, allowing you to look at your spectators and react accordingly.
The problem comes from not having it down well enough such that you're so focused on the script that you can't or don't interact and that is when you sound like a broken record, etc.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
That's been my experience. All of the magic I perform professionally is very tightly scripted and well rehearsed so I don't have to think about what I'm going to say when I perform, but at the same time I focus on not sounding like a robot and "feeling" what I say when I'm performing. The physical part is well rehearsed as well so I don't have to think about what I'm doing.
I consider myself adept at improvising as well, but the funny thing is that almost everything I improvise is rehearsed as well. What do I mean by that? From performing the same effects for many, many years, I've found that there are typical responses at various points in the effects, and I'm prepared for and in fact have rehearsed for different lines and/or actions to audience responses. For example, I perform a coin effect where I ask the spectator a humorous question. From experience, I know that the spectator will say one of three things, and I have a different humorous response to each of those three answers. Audiences give me credit for being incredibly fast on my feet, not knowing that most of my ad libs are practiced. Larry |
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Mesquita Special user 917 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-24 05:35, Larry Davidson wrote: Very interesting Larry, "out" for different reactions by the spectator... All the best, :bikes: Mesquita
"Siempre somos tres me acompaña la luna y me sigue mi sombra" René Lavand
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Tony Noice Veteran user 342 Posts |
Larrry, Alym, Frank and all,
This is a very interesting thread. I'm a full-time, union (AEA-SAG-AFTRA) actor/director and I teach acting in Universities. (I also do a lecture, "Acting Techniques for Magicians.") In one way, all acting is improv because stage time is always "Now". The other actors in a play -- or our spectators in a restaurant -- are always subtlely different now than they were yesterday, or 2 minutes ago, because every moment of life is unique. Therefore, to mean what we say is to communicate our dialogue, or patter, "for real" at the moment of utterance. |
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ksalaz1 Loyal user 237 Posts |
Larry,
I appreciate your insights as always. I think that the post Tony has above is a good reminder for everyone. I wasn't including you when I mentioned magicians who have everything down too tightly (how could I, I've never seen you perform) Likewise, what you are saying can be true for certain performers. In NYC here, I see many street performers using the same pat lines over and over and I still laugh at them because they are fresh with the delivery. I am also with Tony in that the major difference between staged theater (a play with a script) and Magic is that the magic leaves so much room for improv. I know that many of my one-line responses that I use now came about b/c of some improv. response I had at some point. Also, some of the funiest lines come from my audience. I think different things work for different performers and the way you describe your internal state of freshness means that you are aware of turning into a robot and thus, avoid it. But for those who think just a tight script will carry them (with no improv. abilities)....beware.
"Master of the Obvious"
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