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JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Formal practice times vary during the week. I usually try and get in at least an hour a day. But the bulk of my practicing comes in large chunks on the weekends. I often will drive to a nearby restaurant (to get away from any distractions), order a small snack and then sit there for hours practicing things. I try and make sure it's okay with the wait-staff before commandeering a table like this for any period of time. It usually is.
I'd estimate between 8 and 10 hours per week of formal practice and then 2-4 more hours of informal (sitting at the computer, lunch-breaks at work, and relaxing at home) practice per week. Jason On 2004-05-28 17:38, LeConte wrote: Quote:
I think this is an oversimplification of things. A half-hour a week of "perfect" practice probably wouldn't stand up too well to 8 hours a week of "pretty good" practice. I believe improvement is a function of good to above average practice spread out over a period of many sessions and many hours. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Practice for me is sort of like meditation. I can't not do it. I sort of go a little nutty if I don't pick up a deck of cards or get out the shellgame and play with it for a while.
Often it helps me think.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
I contend that none of this stuff is like riding a bike. If you stopped practicing, you'd remember the "big" gross motor movements (yes, with cards!) but would most likely forget the fine tuned subtlties. ie. you'd probably technically still be able to extract the 2nd card but your timing and rhythm would probably be out the window. That's my guess, anyway.
Actually, has any one ever tried NOT riding a bike for a few years, and then hopping back on? It's not nearly as easy as everyone makes it out to be...
tjo'
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Tielie Special user 749 Posts |
Jason England: You worked on the movie Shade, am I right?
If so: Is it really true you guys thought Vernon (don't know the actor's name ) How to control cards? Because that scene in which Vernon culls the 4 aces in a riffle shuffle is madness. I can't see myself doing that in the next 40 years
Deal cards, not drugs!
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Doc: I've seen a friend of yours memorize a shuffled deck using what he says is a binary code system.
I'd like to learn to do it. Can you point me in the right direction? Entity?
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
Entity thanks for writing. I'm not saying that I don't have a friend that does that but if so, tell me his or her name and ask them if they would teach it to me.
I can't point you in the right direction because I don't know either. Your Friend Doc |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Doc: Your friend's name is Sal.
I don't know him personally, and have no way of contacting him. Just thought you might know. Entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
Entity thanks for responding, That's Sal Piacente the up and coming card detective for the casinos, one of my teacher's of memory.
Your Friend Doc A Con Gone Wrong Sometime ago (I really don’t remember all the details now) when Mike Tyson was in Harlem purchasing some leather material for his car seats, some friends of mine found out that he liked to play dice. After playing a couple of times a scam was set up by a couple of guys to beat Mike out of some money. After breaking in this leather man’s store and setting up the Juice device behind a wall, things was set to go. When Mike was to come and check out and pay for the leather roof for his car, the scam would take place. Just when the game was about to start, guess who shows up? Mitch Green (I’m not into sports so I’m not sure if it is this guy or not) starts trying to pick a fight with Mike. Mike while trying to get his bets on told him if he wants to fight we can do it right here or take it out side. Well everybody knows what happens now, Mike and Mitch gets into it right there; fist starts flying, girls’ start running, Dapper Dan starts screaming “not in here.” After we break up the fight, they went out side and started fighting and wrestling on the street (125th street between 5th and Madison Avenue). While in the process of wrestling Mike rolls on top of Mitch and when he’s about to punch him in the face, Mitch moves his head and Mike punches the concrete and hurts his fist. Even though Mike hurt his hand in the fight, he saved himself a lot of money that night. A Knock Out With A Twist One time when I was sitting in a gambling spot right across the street from where Mike and Mitch had that fight, word got out that Black James (A Georgia Skin Player) got cheated out of close to $50,000 - $60,000 by some of his card hustling friends. Black James took this in stride but a guy named Willie kept teasing him about it. One day Black James gets ****ed off and said, keep on talking about it and I’m gonna knock your punk a** out. Willie said, you ain’t gonna touch me. Black James stood up close to him and said now say it again. As soon as Willie said, I said…. Kapow!: an uppercut hits Willie right smack dead on the chin knocking Willie right out. Willie slid down the wall onto the floor when he got hit and as he lay in a sitting position all of a sudden you see a puddle of water building up around him, Willie peed on himself. This is the day when I learn that the P*** can really be knocked out of you. Trying To Rob A Robber Quote:
In Sal's Expert Lecture Notes Volume 1, just before he does the 'Sal's Memory Opener' performance, he mentions that he is well known for his memory routines. I don't have Sal's Video so therefore I don't know what you're talking about but Sal does have printed/typed up material, I know because I have them. This is what I'm trying to study at the moment but I'm just too lazy to do. All I can say is that Sal has nothing but memory books on his shelf and when I say a lot, he has more than Steve or Darwin combined and they have the most books on gambling and cheating I know. If you study Sal's notes, it will be better then buying all of them hundreds of books that he had to study in order to get where he's at today. I highly recommend them. Doc Needs A Programmer To Help Make His Memory System. To those who may be interested in making this basic elementary program for me, please PM me. Thanks in Advance Note: I have a beginning memory program that was being made for me by a young gentleman by the name of Karl Buchnerk. He stopped for one reason or another of which I don't know and now he has it up at his site and claims that it's a program that he’s developing (on his own) and gives me no credit at all. Doc says, “I Would Have Got Robbed” One day while on my way to Ohio from Louisville Kentucky to play a middleweight champ some Tonk (That’s another story and no the game did not occur), a friend and I stopped off at Sal’s home along the way. This was our first meeting in 15 years. As I mentioned in a previous thread Sal and I practiced in the back of Rueben’s on the floor and sometimes under the tutelage of Frank Garcia, Gene Maze, Wesley James, Doug Edwards and yes Harry Lorayne: Sal did. Harry shunned me like a bad habit telling me to buy his memory book with him and Jerry Lucas; in which I did. I was playing the light/glimmer/shiner and I couldn’t remember the cards so who better to ask then the world famous Harry Lorayne? Well after I got mad and he didn’t teach me, I bought and read his book and made up my own card memory system. Note: Sal and I had this idea since 1986-87 but since Sal went his way and I never saw him again, I had to go mine. Note To Magicians: You see the results of his continuous study and hard work? Look at where it’s getting him? He’s now one of the top leading consultants on casino gambling in the country with the great Steve Forte backing him; while my idea which is very similar to Sal’s is trying to be stolen by a young magician programmer (Karl Buchner) and still lying by the wayside. Sal Is Awesome As Sal and his lovely wife took me to a part of his house where he practices, I saw loads and loads of books, mostly on memory and that wasn’t even all he had. I couldn’t believe my eyes all the things that he has on gambling. I didn’t yet get to meet Steve Forte at this time and to see what he had so I was mesmerized. If ya’ll love his video, imagine him showing all of this live and more. His blackjack demonstration on a scale of 1 – 10 was a 10 (I have it on video as a matter of fact, I have everything on video except magic tricks and he has me on his). Sal blew my Jap-Wise hustler friend and myself away with what he did especially with his Shuffle Tracking System and his Rain Man Trick (Tom Cruise and Dustin Hoffman). I Would Have Got Robbed Sal took out 6 decks of cards and placed them all on top of one another and told me to break the 6 decks into two groups, he then said now break them into two groups in which I did. He told me to shuffle any two groups together in which I did and placed them in the middle of the table. He also told me to do it until my heart was content; so I did and after I did that group, I was to continue doing it just like the dealers in the casino does it; I did. Sal took one of those yellow cards and cut the deck at a location and placed that half to the side and said that there were no aces in that entire two deck of cards that he cut away. I said yeah right. As we spread the cards, there was not one ace in that whole section like he said and then he took that yellow card and sliced another portion of that deck in which I shuffled and said that all the aces were in that group. I said all, he said all. We took that group and spread the deck and all 24 aces was in that group like he said and I did the shuffling. In my amazement, I laughed and told my friend, Sal and his wife, I would have got robbed. When we went to eat down stairs, Sal asked me to take a deck and make a hand and give it to him. Sal then called one of his kids down stairs and asked him, “What am I holding in my hand? He told his father King’s over 5’s full house in which he was correct. Note: Now you can understand why my teacher taught me to play Cold Deck and not to play Poker. . . I would have got robbed; this is why students should pay attention to DETAILS. This is the day when Sal gave me the notes and a study program to practice with and this is the day that Sal Piacente became my memory teacher. One More Thing Before I Go I’m going on record to date and saying that amongst the gamblers, I REPEAT AMONGST THE GAMBLERS (people who don’t know anything about magic or Harry Lorayne’s reputation), Sal is considered the best card memory guy in the country. I cannot agree with this even though Sal is my teacher. Sal agrees with me; but when I told him that I got into argument over him and some hustlers trying to prove that Harry is better; some said Harry who? And the other’s said, let Harry get in a card game and watch him get broke. I laughed but I had to agree with them. Harry Lorayne has tons and tons of information bottled up inside of him right along with Doug Edwards; to me they are human encyclopedias on card magic here in NYC but when I made a Stripper Deck (in about 10 minutes) and told them that it was a Stripper Deck and asked them if could they pull my cards, Harry took the cards and couldn’t even pull one; he said that these cards weren’t Strippers. I then took the deck and pulled out all the Aces as one. I said Harry what if I told you that I can pull out all the Kings too, he said let me see, I pulled out all the Kings, and then I said Harry what if I can pull out all the Queens now by themselves and he said impossible, I pulled out all the Queens and walked away only because he shunned me 15 years earlier. Bottom Line: If you haven’t got Sal’s Video, please get it as soon as your pockets can stand the damage. I have to get them too not only because he’s my teacher, because I need to know what can possibly exist if I attain at least half as much knowledge as he has. Your Friend Doc |
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James Harrison Special user Ontario, Canada 762 Posts |
Scafidi7,
Hey man, how are things? You going to the meeting at the Browser's this weekend? Love the ring dude. I will say that riding a bike thing you speak of is not a big thing for me, I haven't ridden a bike in like a year, but after about a half hour on it, I was riding it with no hands like I was a kid again. (Probably shouldn't do the no hands thing, I don't heal as quick as when I was 14.) Doc, I'm really enjoying your posts. I'm not a big fan of card tricks per say, but I love reading about gambling. I picked up Phantoms at the Card table and enjoyed it very much. I want to learn more gambling techniques (one being the punch, like how to make one that wil fit in the hand unnoticed.) but like you said, the games I want to learn are probably different from the games you know. But keep the stories coming, I love every one of them. I hope you do put a book out. All the best for you and your family, James Harrison |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
Hey James,
yup I'll be going to Browsers for sure. If you're going to ride a bike, wear gloves, it'd be ashame if you damaged those skilled coin-manipulating mitts of yours. Thanks for the comment on the ring but unfortunately it's de-charged at the moment. Tristan O'
tjo'
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James Harrison Special user Ontario, Canada 762 Posts |
Tristan,
You gots to bring the ring to the meet. You should defiantly do a ring and string routine with it. It would be awesome to to use with patter. Then somehow change the color of the rope to yellow then say the trick won't work now. (Man I'm such a geek with comics) |
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
Thank you so much for chatting with me! I cannot even say how grateful I am to you for doing this. …
As to my situation, heh, I don't make that kind of money. I make $1500 a month tops. This guy who is paying me to cheat is only calling me to games about once a month. He also asks that I do not cheat for anyone else. That's the part I don't like... I simply cannot make enough from him and yet he doesn't want me to use my skills anywhere else. I've read your advice on greed and I understand you perfectly! I've been doing this professionally for only 5 months so I consider myself a novice. I'll learn. I have an interesting question... have you ever played against a cheat and you found out about it? Last time I played, I caught the guy second dealing but didn't say anything at all. I just cheated better than him. What do you do in these situations? Do you accuse other person of cheating or just let it slide? I think it's better to be non confrontational but then again, they'll just blatantly cheat more and more if you don't do anything. You know what I mean?? Thank you my friend! ****I'm accepting you as my student… I will not be teaching you any moves at least I don't know yet and you will learn from me as I learned from my teacher; and this is the way he taught me but it was over the phone. Nick your situation is not a difficult situation but then again it is. Why? It all depends on your needs. Re-read what I wrote about in Need More? Did you make enough money to satisfy that need? Do you need more money right now for something? Can you wait until another time to get it? Once you answer these here questions you can decide what you want to do? If he pays you $500 to cheat for him and 10% of the winnings, that mean that he has made $10,000 from your skill and only gave you 10% which is $1,000. You are being robbed $4,500 each time you play for him. How? That money is suppose to be split 50/50 which is an even split of $5,000 a piece right down the middle. Why? He has the games and he puts up the money, which compensates for your skill and time that you took to learn how to cheat. Since you have been doing this for 5 months and has received about $1,500 each month; this means at 10% that he has won about $10,000 each month each time he played which is $50,000. Since 50% of that was yours, which is $5,000 each for each of the 5 months, he has not only robbed the people, he has robbed you of your share for about $25,000. If you subtract the $500 up front money for playing 5 months, which equal $2,500, he owes you $22,500. This is Greed on his behalf because money is his god and he doesn't care how he gets it. He was not honest with you. As I said in my post they will lie and say anything to get what they want. By him talking to you, he knew you was green (didn't know and was a sucker to this) and verbally manipulated you into accepting the $500 and 10% of what he won. Since you verbally agreed to this, according to him in which he's right, you agreed to give him your $22,500 because of your need or greed for the $500 and the 10%. This is why you hear of singers, songwriters, boxers etc. getting robbed because they agreed and signed messed up contracts because of trust, need and greed; now this is why THE CROSS exist, to get even for a guy who cheated or robbed you for your money. I have an interesting question... have you ever played against a cheat and you found out about it? Yes Last time I played, I caught the guy second dealing but didn't say anything at all. I just cheated better than him. What do you do in these situations? Don’t say anything. The chances are that this guy will be one of your friends later on in life. In the gambling world, the motto is “Everybody Got to Eat.” Question, even though you might be better than him, have you ever thought that he saw you cheating first and didn’t say anything? Let’s say that you did tell on him and now he turns and tell on you and for the last 5 months you and your friend has beaten these guys out of about $55,000. What do you think is going to be your outcome or income from that point on; nothing? Remember, Mind your business and you live longer. Do you accuse other person of cheating or just let it slide? You let it slide. I think it's better to be non confrontational. Correct answer. They'll just blatantly cheat more and more if you don't do anything. You know what I mean? Yes they will cheat blatantly just like you’re doing. If he cheats YOU out of a pot all you say to him is, you see how much this pot is ($1,000) and say, I just put $375 in it but I can’t win; you can take it. You just told the guy without words that you cheated me in this pot and I’m not going to tell and rank you here but I have to have my $375 back. But the best solution to this is not to play cards and to fold your hand when he deals like you don’t know. One more thing, when hustlers think they know something and they’re just not sure, they will give you a look to see if you’re a hustler, just look away like you didn’t know that anything just happened. Do not confirm to them that you’re a cheat. They are not sure and is just fishing for information. Doc |
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Kevin Ram Special user Travelling through Europe 791 Posts |
Hi Doc,
If you're hustling in a card game would you ever use the 'Erdnase' grip or 'frame the deck'(two fingers round front)? Do you think it is too much of a give away? Have you ever seen another hustler using it thanks in advance!
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
I wrote about this in my Strike Second Dealing Post which was taken down but to answer your question no. I would never use the grip because of card dectives and people who are Jap-Wise about the grip; I second, center and bottom all the from the same grip.
I would like to state for the record, I have seen seconds and bottoms done from all the different hand grips and in the hands of each expert, each move was done perfectly. I only recommend the natural grip because the suckers use this grip, how did you hold the deck before you was taught this grip and you don't want any card detectives or Jap-Wise guys detecting you as soon as you hold a deck in your hands to play. Your Friend Doc |
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Kevin Ram Special user Travelling through Europe 791 Posts |
You say you use the Walter Scott second deal. do you use his bottom deal 2?
When people speak about 'fast company' how fast does this generally mean. Does it mean other hustlers who do the moves and can spot the slights or just players who know the moves. What's the fastest company you've been in?
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
Do I use Walter's second deal grip yes but I don't believe that I use his bottom deal grip hand position. As I mentioned earlier, I use the same hand position for all of my deals.
Fast company is the 90% of Jap-Wise hustler's that I mentioned in a previous topic that seen the moves once or twice but can't do it. You need to re-read the 90% and The Magicians Have Been Lied To post. I stated that most were bums and a magician can run rings around them. So why are you still asking me this question? Oh I know why? You're still believing that Magician's Lie about most cheats being experts. Wake-up. I'm sorry for being blunt and direct, but I'm not writing these posts for nothing; read between the lines and pay attention to details. The fastest company I've been in was mentioned in a previous post and the names were mentioned when I went to Steve's house and "The Best of the Best met up" to practice and they wasn't cheaters, I was. Why I’m Not Tooting My Horn I'm the best overall cheat that I've seen to this date. Steve is definitely better but he's not a card cheat. To any that think that I'm tooting my horn well I'm not, I have not met any black card cheats at my level as of yet. I am not saying that there is none out there but I haven't met any. Everyone that I did meet had 2 or 3 specialties and that was it. I believe that since I was brain washed like many of you here are about how every card cheat was an expert like Walter Scott, Dad Steven’s, and Erdnase etc. I practiced to reach this level and when I started to travel to meet these legends that I heard about who cheat, I found out that these guys who I respected because of their reputation ranked lower than an average beginning card magician. To my surprise I was hurt at seeing this and so I traveled to meet others because I thought it was just this guy and when I did, I saw the same things from the others. Don’t get me wrong, some of these guys were okay but if a magician were taught the same move, by the end of the week that magician would have improved upon that same move 10 fold. This is what I did, this is why I’m at this forum learning and the magicians are my teachers and this is the reason why I’m at this level. Bottom Line: I’m nothing but a Michael Ammar card cheat whose stage is the card table who believed a lie made up by magicians and magician writers to make their audience or readers believe that they were experts like the cheats they were trying to expose. My Concluding Summary: I was a magician like many of you who was fooled by lies and only found out through much practice and experience that when I went out to meet these so called cheating legends, they wasn’t expert card manipulators like Steve, Sal, Darwin, Andrew, Jason, Gene, Wesley, Rod, Damian, Paul, Frank Garcia etc. they were low level wanna-be-magicians who at best can do a push off second and a bottom deal in which their fingers drop so low that you can see it a mile away. Note: All those that are an exception to this rule, I have them on video tape teaching me their specialties; and that’s not many. I’m sorry to bust a lot a bubbles and myths about us cheats being experts but that the facts as I see it so far amongst the black card cheats and some whites that I have met throughout my travels. I hope that this has been eye opening to some of you. Your Friend Doc The Down Side of Cheating As I sat in the gambling spot a couple of nights ago trying to get a game for some chump change, an associate of mine who owns the club comes in. He talks about how he doesn’t want anyone messing up the area where he has his girlfriend’s poster who just recently passed. As the gamblers tolerate this guys messed up attitude not a word is said regarding it. As the owner goes towards his slot machines to start collecting his money one of the guys who was just recently playing the machine starts to argue with him regarding how his machines were rigged and it cheated him out his money. The owner knew that this was true but tried to shun the conversation. This man is going to make Red and the club members see that he’s wrong so he pulls out his gun and threatens him that if he don’t give him his money back that he’s gonna have a problem. The owner tries to defend himself by saying that his machine was okay but that he was a sore loser. The man proves to those standing around in the club that the machine was rigged. As this is going on the owner gets ****ed off and goes home to get his gun. As the owner comes back to try to show that he wasn’t a punk he draws his gun. As the gamblers scatter leaving the club, none made an effort to try to stop the argument and to tell them to calm down. All of a sudden, shots rang out, pow pow pow, then you hear pow pow. Then another pow pow. Pow pow. Then all you heard was silence as we stood outside the gambling spot on 123rd between Lenox and 7th Avenue. As we slowly enter both guys are lying on the floor on opposite sides of the room almost dead from shooting each other. Check the news for NYC Manhattan and see. Red (71 yrs old) who was mourning the death of his girlfriend who died two months ago was now about to join her as the blood piled up around him. Why wouldn’t he give Pint (51 yrs old) his money back and keep on hustling and getting money? Was this worth dying? Greed and pride are two dangerous guys to keep as your friends. Now because of pride, greed, ego and stupidity, both are now dead and neither can use the money that they argued over where they are going. May God bless their soul? All I can do now is hope as they laid dying in Harlem Hospital that they made their peace with God. This is just one more reason why I want to leave the gambling life alone. Just Remembering Friends Doc |
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James Foster New user 59 Posts |
Brief notice here:
http://www.wnbc.com/news/3391012/detail.html Sorry to hear about your friends, Doc. All the best, J. |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
It is a sad story Doc...
In the last Dai Vernon book that Bruce Cervon wrote it talks about people that would short change people at the carnivals. If a customer thought that they were short changed and they squacked. They would give the customer their money and say my misstake. I have known a few people that advantage played at the card table. In a conversation with a family friend that was both a pool shark and a card shark that my parents knew. In fact he got his house by playing cards. he told me that in the games that he used to be in that money wasn't worth getting killed over. If someone thought he cheated he would refund the money but wouldn't play that person again. In fact if people squacked to much they would not be asked to play if there was a game in town.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Unknown419 Inner circle 1321 Posts |
Glen, what your friend said is so right, this is what Walter Scott wrote about too. You have to know how to control a situation. One day when I was new to cheating I used a peek in a blackjack game that was flawless in a 3-way mirror but was horrible from another position. Everybody from my left hand side and the front could not see the move but it was clear to anyone sitting on my right hand side.
After dealing everybody a hand I peeked the top two cards when placing the deck on the table. The guy on my right hand side who worked for an armored truck company who had his gun at his side said, “hey what’s up with that?” I realized that he saw what I did and I said “just hold up for one minute” but he tried to squawk again and I said” hold on partner, I know I owe you money and I’m gonna pay you.” After I beat the guys in the pot for the blackjack money, I said here’s $200 and he shut up; after I won the other deal for a large sum of money I said now here’s your other $300; so are we even now? He said yeah while smiling and counting his money. This guy lost about $60 in the game when he saw me do that peek move but he had a big gun, he was big and I didn’t know how mad he would have got after knowing he was being cheated. This was the day that I realized my error in practicing in a 3-way mirror that Frank Garcia gave me before he passed. After changing the angel of the mirror that night and seeing my mistake, I went out the very next day with the money I won and had a 5-way mirror made which exposed all angles. In this mirror I could see 10 different positions; all positions that anyone at a card table could see if they would sit down. Doc |
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Tielie Special user 749 Posts |
But when the guy said it to you, how did the other players react?
Deal cards, not drugs!
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