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Avocat Elite user 446 Posts |
Been experimenting lately with a Fender PD-250, using music from an iPod and a Gemini UF2064ML wireless lav and handheld combination, along with RemoteRemote2 for iPod control.
There's a problem I've come across that I haven't seen addressed yet, I think having to do with sound-mixing. What I'm finding is that, closer to the speakers, the music is much louder and more overpowering than further away. In other words, my voice, over the music, is clearer to people in the back of the room than in the front. Is there any particular workaround for this issue? I'm no sound expert, but it sounds to me like the music becomes more like "white noise" the further away the listener gets from the speakers, sort of blending into the environment while spoken words naturally command more attention across distances. Might have to do with preconditioning rather than acoustics. A problem nonetheless. Anyone else experience anything like this? |
Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie Special user Toronto, Canada 804 Posts |
Hello, Avocat!
There are only two things I can think of, off the top of my head. The first one is based on the assumption that you're speaking through the mic when you're hearing this affect, and that your voice is not pre-recorded. You always hear two versions of your voice. One is "live" (exactly what you'd hear without the mic), and the other is amplified through the PA. When you're further from the PA, your "live" voice is proportionately louder than it is when you're much closer to the speakers, but the music's only coming out of the speakers. In other words, your voice is louder TO YOU because you're hearing both versions of your voice. The audience, however, won't have the same experience, because they'll only hear a single version of the combination of your voice and the music. The second is a matter of acoustics. The sound of the PA, and the sound of each thing going through it, changes as you get further away from it. I suspect the first part's much more at play. Cheers from Toronto! Dan.
Dan McLean Jr
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Avocat Elite user 446 Posts |
Thanks for the tip, Dan!
Actually, though, the phenomenon was noticed by my partner while he was wandering around the room, gauging spectator reactions and checking sight lines (we were trying out a number of new things). Maybe we should futz with the equalizer settings or something. Or maybe just make the music quieter and be done with it. |
Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
Dan may chime in again on my statement or maybe even Andy Levis will pop in...
How about running compressors...both on the music and on your mic. This will keep the level more constant so that it may be more clearly heard above background sounds...ie, music. Getting everything to a even happy medium may be the best answer. DBX makes a compressor one unit high that will compress two different signals, with seperate controls for each. That is, in my opinion, the best solution for your problem. Kevin
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g0thike Special user 722 Posts |
Avocat,
I might have an easier answer, level all your music, then when you sound check play the music, start talking into the microphones BUT stand in the audience area away from your speakers. You might have different volumes on your music. So how is the Remote2Remote working for you? G0THIKE |
Avocat Elite user 446 Posts |
Thanks for the advice, I'll start testing immediately. The RemoteRemote2 works wonderfully. I get around the range problem by timing my routines so I'm close to the iPod when I change tracks (which I have to be anyway, since it's also my "applause area"). It fits perfectly in my the tiny additional front pocket of my slax (I think it's for keys) so I can trigger it by raising my hand to my waist or by keeping my hand on my hips. Fade-to-pause hasn't been necessary, since each track change occurs during applause. Thanks to the 20-minute silent track between each song, the iPod never sleeps and changes quickly.
Since I have my wife's iPod mini handy, I keep an identical playlist on it, and hook it up to the Griffin AirClick, which I've actually found a bit harder to use (doesn't fit into the same pocket - although the range has been identical as far as I can tell). Way I see it, if an iPod will fail 1/100 times, then two iPods will both fail 1/10,000 times. Not bad odds. I should post this on the other thread, huh? I'll do that, too. |
Magic.J.Manuel Special user I have danced upon 663 Posts |
Why not make the silent track a, "fade to silence", track?
You will have to record a "fade to silent" for each segment, and have another 20 min silent track after the fade out track. This may work if there is no pause or gap between tracks. Also, some basic points about the Fender PD that you may know, but have not been mentioned in this thread. The music player should be plugged into the line in stereo jack(s), set the switch to mono. Stereo is only useful to smaller audiences that you can cover the whole group with both speakers. If half the audience cannot hear the other speaker they will not get any benefit from listening to only one side of the stereo. and cranking up the volume is not the solution, only multiple speaker towers will sound great in stereo. The Fender 150 or 250 is a PA not a DJ system. These 6 1/2" cones and tweeters will only make music sound so good. If you really want quality sound add some 10" or 15" speakers and an 18" sub-woofer. But now you are going way beyond what is needed for good voice sound with background music. Just adding a powered 15" woofer will dramatically improve the sound and reduce the relative volume. Otherwise if you have to use another line-in make sure the switch is set for line, not mic so the signal is not overdriven. Assuming the mic is in channel one, you can dial the EQ up on channel one only to boost your vocal range, and maybe turn down the EQ HI on the Stereo channel to provide more "room for voice" in that frequency range. Also, channel one has the VIP that should be set to 0 until you have the proper master volume set for the venue, and channel volumes set. Then set the VIP to reduce the music volume while speaking. Turn down the reverb/aux and adjust it later for the venue. Leave the master reverb in the middle and then adjust the channels. Much of the set-up should be done in place at the venue during your sound check.
Nothing would get done at all, if man waited so long that no one could find fault with it.
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Avocat Elite user 446 Posts |
Thank you for the sense of perspective! I think I'd unconsciously placed too much emphasis on music through what is, as you've reminded me, just a PA system. It's just such a LOUD and POWERFUL system, I think it made me forget what it was supposed to be used for.
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Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
Adjust your VIP channel.
When your music gets to loud it will adjust to make the vocal mic louder automatically. That is one of the big pluses of the Fender P series.
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Avocat Elite user 446 Posts |
Thanks for the tip, I've been turning it all the way down or avoiding mic-1 altogether, but it's a pretty neat feature. I'll try working with it more extensively next time.
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
Sounds like somebody didn't show up for their sound check (Ha, ha).
Follow the recommendations made by the manufacturer. The simple fix is to us a mixer and an equalizer. You might also consider a pre-amp that can handle the music. Most systems list the recommended room volume in cubic or metric area. Follow these numbers by knowing the size of each venue and position the speakers accordingly. Usually, you'll use a larger than recommended speaker/amp combo's to avoid overdriving the speaker.
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Michael Taggert Special user Fredericksburg Virginia 656 Posts |
I know this may sound odd here but check the input plug from your Ipod to you system. if it is not a correct match (balance vs unbalanced) you will not get the same response from your player and yes to hear the music it must be cranked. Then when you speak the voice comes in like an earthquake. (this happened to me because I didn't check the new plug the tech ran out and got fifteen minutes before the show. OOOOPPS)
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