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statenisland New user 20 Posts |
I have both decks. Last night I was using the Ted Lesley's Marked Deck and two of my clients found the marks! I had the Boris Wild decks for some time now too and no one found the marks. Was it just a bad night?
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ALEXANDRE Inner circle 3024 Posts |
I think so. I have used the Lesley deck a couple of times in the past and never had a problem with them. What effects were you doing with that deck? You have to be really careful when working with a marked deck. Audience management is very important in these cases. The audience should not feel like you "need" to use this sort of thing to perform your miracles ... and when they don't "feel" it, they don't even think about it. So yeah ... I think it was just a bad night. It happens.
HERE'S A SECRET ...
http://www.lybrary.com/mystic-alexandre-m-354.html |
Colonel Mustard New user 24 Posts |
I think it is obvious that your flexibility in using the Wild deck is much broader than in using the Lesley deck. Of course with proper use neither will be caught; but they differ in what constitutes "proper use"! The Lesley cards have to be held more closely and with more caution. If you let the spectator play with them there is a nontrivial probability that they will see the marks. That's not a problem for some performers who never let their spectators really have the cards. But for those of us who perform in situations where such handling is desirable, the Wild system is obviously better. While it's still possible for a spectator to spot the marks, it's much harder.
Mustard. |
ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
I know several professional performers who have been caught out with the Lesley deck, so while you may indeed have been having a "bad night", don't be surprised if you have more. The Wild system is certainly less easily spotted.
An even more indetectable marking system (and easier to apply) is Bob Farmer's Farmarx system, described in Kirk Charles recent (and inexpensive) Marked for Life book. Like the "press-on" systems, it is designed to be easily read from a distance. ... Doug
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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rrubin98 Veteran user Cogito, ergo sum scripsit 357 Posts |
Boris Wild states in his video that he started out using the TL deck and then made improvements to create his own system. I really like the BW marked deck and accompanying tape.
- Richard |
RC4MAG Special user 563 Posts |
Alexandre is right. It is all audience management when using a marked deck. Maybe you need to analyze the moment when you are looking at the markings. Is it a time when the spectators are looking at your face and see you are staring (or even squinting) at the back of the cards? I think the number one solution you hear layman have of how you know their card, is that the deck must be marked. Therefore, your presentation should be such to lead away from this possibility.
Isn't this why we give a spectator a normal deck to examine? Isn't this why we prefer to borrow a deck? I think it was Harry Lorayne who wrote that a card trick is 100 percent stronger when done with a borrowed deck. |
Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
I agree that presentation is important, but so is the particular tool you use, i.e., the particular marked deck. I've said it before in other threads and I'll say it again...the Lesley deck is one of the worst decks to use for laymen. I've been caught with it, and know others who have as well, so I developed my own system which laymen or magicians (not that I care about fooling magicians) could stare at for a lengthy period of time and never discover, although I would never hand out any deck, even an ungimmicked one, to be examined for any lengthy period of time because it would create dead time which interrupted the flow. The Lesley deck was hot when it first came out because magicians could fool other magicians with it - - the markings are different from other systems magicians were familiar with. By the way, Harry Lorayne's advice is nonsensical for working magicians. When's the last time you performed professionally and someone just happened to have a deck of cards you could borrow.
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petrakos New user 55 Posts |
I've been caught about four or five times out of a hundred using the Lesley deck. In contrast, I haven't been nailed yet with the BW deck, although I haven't used it nearly as often. To be honest, once I got caught with the Lesley deck a couple of times, I think it made me more anxious about using it. That possibly made my performance tighter, which may have led to the specs getting suspicious.
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Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts |
Larry:
I'm not sure I agree with the last part of your statement...many, many times I've been somewhere were someone "just happened" to have a deck of cards. I asked if I could borrow the deck, and proceeded to perform several effects. (And no, I was never run off the premises. ) At the same time, the same philosophy can be taken one step further if you break open a new deck in front of them, and let them shuffle, etc. When using a marked deck, I prefer Boris' method...Ted's is too blatant for my taste, and the DeKram deck reeks of "something's changed here."
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Steve, my Lorayne statement was based on my experience working as a professional vs. performing for friends, etc. I would agree that the likelihood of being able to borrow a deck when working professionally would depend on the venue. If, for example, you perform at restaurants, comedy clubs, or at corporate functions, the likelihood of you finding someone who just happens to have a deck on him or her is extremely remote. Personally, I wouldn't ask to borrow a deck anyway because of the dead time and because I probably wouldn't be able to smoothly perform many of the effects I normally perform with an ungimmicked deck due to the poor quality/condition of a deck a non-magician might provide you. Your mileage may vary.
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Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts |
Larry:
Oh, I don't know .... there's something to be said for gummed-together decks! (your block pushoffs tend to go *soooo* much easier, for instance...)
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
alex cahill Loyal user 234 Posts |
lets be serious guys, straying away from the direct question. why are we concerened about the marks on the back. personally i use a marked up deck of bycycle cards, but i routine it so that marks on the back is the last thing they could ever think of. if you have the deck face down and you are dealing the cards one at a time face down on the table while saying what card it is, you are going to get sprung. learn a nice routine and worry no more
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Steve, good point, although pushing off 51 cards while trying to push off just 2 may arouse some suspicion.
Alex, I respectfully disagree. Yes, having a good routine goes without saying, but having a good prop that's used in the routine matters as well. I don't know what type of marked deck you're using, but if you disagree that the tool's important, take a bicycle deck and write the name of each card on its back using a big, thick, black magic marker, and then try your routine. I'm not comparing Lesley's deck to one marked via magic marker, I'm just trying to get across my opinion that the marks themselves matter. Just my opinion. |
alex cahill Loyal user 234 Posts |
sorry larry u miss understood. as far as i am concerned the marks on the back of a playing card are not that important. i have performed a routine many times with a dodgy marked deck that you but from your local joke shop. no propblem. work on a nice routine and no questios will be asked. here is an idea, even after you ae done offer the deck saying 'check the cards out' this is subconciously telling them that you are noit using dodgy cards.
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Alex, our experiences differ. I've used Lesley's marked deck, have been caught, and know others who have as well. I use something different now and have never been caught (or had suspicion voiced). I don't think it's the routine. I've developed a number of routines that not only blow laymen away, but have fooled some of today's big name magicians. I guess the bottom line is that we all should use whatever works for us.
By the way, when working professionally, I would never say "check the cards out" because it would cause dead space and might plant the idea in someone's mind that they are fake cards when that person didn't have that thought in the first place. Having someone check the deck out without specifically saying that is something different, for example, by giving them the deck to shuffle, having them hold the deck while they have someone else select a card, etc. |
Menetekel Loyal user 273 Posts |
I've used TL Marked Deck for years and no one ever caught me. I think your risk of spectators seeing the marking is high if you focus too much your attention on the deck. In my case I (almost) always used it incombo with another deck for two-decks effects.
Max |
cgscpa Elite user Ashton, MD 447 Posts |
I have just begun using a BW deck. I usually do one effect with it - go on to something else not involving cards - and then bring a regular deck to finish up.
One question - how does one handle "getting caught"? There are many great effects in BW's book but I don't think I would do more than one at any one time for the reasons posted by others. Question to Larry D. - are you the same Larry D. that used to work at Barry's Magic Shop? |
LordPH Regular user Suomi 189 Posts |
I Have Lesley´s deck, and it´s pretty easy to get caught and markings are so straight so you can see them right away if you just spot your eyes on the right place. There are still ways to hide those markings
I Haven´t tried BW deck yet...
Lucas Ace
Ultimatemagic.Net Helsinki Street Team |
jayp Veteran user 333 Posts |
I only recently purchased the Ted Lesley Marked deck book with markings and I really like it, I marked a blue deck of Tally Ho's so I don't think its as obvious as where the marks were supposed to go on a Bicycle deck.
Jamie |
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