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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
Darwin,
Part of magic's vernacular includes a constant and usually unqualified mention of an "underground." This term is somewhat baffling to me, and was wondering if you believe there is a parallel society of magicians, who operate full-steam and with impunity, yet able to conceal their revolutionary techniques from "mainstreamers" like us? Could you please elaborate on what, if any "underground' may exist with regard to sleight of hand? Thank you. Sincerely, Ron Giesecke |
Darwin Ortiz V.I.P. 486 Posts |
Ron:
In recent months I've visited three different magicians’ websites that proudly proclaim the magician in question to be a member of the Magic Underground. Elsewhere I mentioned that I’m a fan of The Simpsons. In one episode, Homer is inducted into the Federal Witness Protection Program. In the next scene, he is shown wearing a tee shirt that reads “Federal Witness Protection Program.” Having a website that identifies you as a member of the magic underground makes as much sense as wearing a tee shirt that identifies you as a member of the Federal Witness Protection Program. The only difference is that there really is a Federal Witness Protection Program and, in my view, there is no magic underground. This is not to say that there are no cliques in magic. You can form one yourself. Just get together with a couple of friends and start snubbing other magicians. But that’s not the same as an underground inner circle. It’s easy to understand why many magicians today can’t tell the difference. They weren’t in magic back when there really was an underground, so they don’t have a basis for comparison. I was. (Even then, the magic underground was in its twilight.) What defines a magic underground is having a monopoly on a cache of exclusive magic information. The measure of that monopoly is the amount of time that elapses between when something circulates within the inner circle and when it finally reaches the masses. When Derek Dingle taught me the Stuart Gordon double lift, it was another fifteen years before the move appeared in print. When he taught me the Altman double undercut palm, it was almost a decade before it was published. (Keep in mind that these moves were years old before they were taught to me.) Today, the lead-time between private circulation and mass distribution is two or three years and shrinking. I realize that many will refuse to believe what I’ve said. Romantic notions die hard, particularly in an inherently romantic field like magic. Furthermore, debunking the magic underground is like disproving flying saucers or the New World Order’s black helicopters. To some, the very lack of evidence is proof of just how super-secret they are. Finally, some magicians have a vested interest in perpetuating this myth. Stay tuned for the magic underground video series, magic underground magazine, magic underground cable TV show, and magic underground decoder ring. (Of course, you won’t be allowed access to any of these super-secret things—unless you have a credit card.) If any of you wants to let others play on your insecurities by implying that they’re part of some exclusive underground that you’re not, that, of course, is your business. If you start feeling too badly, you can always start a website that proclaims you a member of the magic underground. (Or just have a tee shirt printed up.) Sincerely, Darwin Ortiz |
Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
Darwin,
but surely there are sleights that have not been published and are unlikely to be published for a while yet. Take the Robinson Centre Deal for instance, unless I'm mistaken it has not been published but the technique is known by a few magicians and taught face to face. Would you not say this behaviour has an underground flavour? Thanks Claudio |
Darwin Ortiz V.I.P. 486 Posts |
Claudio:
Of course, there will always be unpublished moves. I don’t think that, in itself, proves much. I think that the fact that you had to cite a move that dates from the days when there really was a magic underground is itself revealing. Sincerely, Darwin Ortiz |
Seth Special user 566 Posts |
Out of Curiosity which situation do you prefer? i.e. Do you actually think it's any better that the information comes easier these days or do you think it's more likely that it will be triviliased?
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Darwin Ortiz V.I.P. 486 Posts |
Seth:
That's an excellent question. There are advantages and disadvantages to both approaches. But, having seen it both ways, I think it's better to have the information available so that any serious student can rise as high in the magic world as his dedication will allow. In addition, the amount of creativity in magic has grown with the availability of information. (Yes, there is an awful lot of junk published. But there are also a lot of great ideas produced.) Sincerely, Darwin Ortiz |
Allan-F Regular user Toronto, Ontario 131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-01-27 05:17, Darwin Ortiz wrote: Ha! Indeed, the above is exactly the kind of subterfuge and misinformation that one would expect from the Magic Underground! Ron, are you really that naive? Did you really think you would get a straight answer by asking this question of an obvious member of the Undergound? Mr. Darwin Ortiz is the greatest card magician in the world and author of the widely read Strong Magic, a vulgar tome that tries to convince us the "real work" lies in showmanship, rather than in the carefully guarded secrets of the Underground. Ha! Mr. Ortiz, if that is his real name, is obviously a top member of the Undergound... you will get no answers from him. Only lies and misdirection. Yours in Paranoia, Allan :)
Allan-F
"What can be thought of or spoken of necessarily IS, since it is possible for it to be, while it is not possible for NOTHING to be." -- Parmenides |
Darwin Ortiz V.I.P. 486 Posts |
Allan, you know too much. Both you and your post will soon be deleted. The rest of you please go about your normal business.
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
I'm Airbrushing him out of the picture, now, Darwin, and changing his username to Trotsky.
Cheers, Ron |
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The January 2003 entrée: Darwin Ortiz » » Extant Underground? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (1 Likes) |
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