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leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
I have experience with stretched canvas stage flats, but right now am working on something new and would like some advice.
If I need to paint a series of 10' X 10' backdrops, colorful, bright, that will not be stretched but hung loose in indoor environments, what would be my best options- if any of you have experience with such. I need to be able to cover a LOT of area fast and as inexpensively as POSSIBLE, so was wondering if acrylic house paint would be flexible enough on canvas to be folded or rolled for transport. These banners would not get a LOT of wear and tear, but I'd like to keep them around as long as possible. Any suggestions, sources, hints anyone can share would be most appreciated. If you need more info, let me know what you need to know. Thanks in advance.... Dean
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
Fred Goode, photographer/magician, paints his own photographic set scenes using an air brush and fabric paints. There are many freelance airbrushers that work at tee-shirt shops, etc. who might be able to assist you or paint your backdrops for you.
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
Looking more to do it ourselves, due to the amount of work and the time table.
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
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raywitko Special user western Pa 527 Posts |
If you have a Pat Cattans (a craft store) in your area they have spray paint for fabrics. Don't remember the price.
Ray
Sometimes it seems there are more than one of me.
Tabman USA magicdmv email me at [email]fursclass@magicdmv.com[/email] |
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Servante Inner circle 1330 Posts |
I can only tell you what I've done (and still, on occasion, do) for large drops, proper or not.
I buy muslin drops from a theatrical supply house. They've usually got the requisite pockets and grommets and can be ordered by size. You will need a large room. Hang your drop against a solid wall. If you're in a workshop situation, stretch it as you would a flat with a 1X3 frame nailed into the wall. In any case, you have to guard against the drop shrinking unevenly. More in a bit. Put your design (drawn to scale on paper) on an Artograph (or, if you haven't an Artograph, an overhead projector...or make a slide and put it in a slide projector. Project the design onto your drop. Now...if the design is simple enough, and you've managed to stretch your muslin (or have purchased pre-stretched) you can can paint on the projection. My designs usually aren't that simple. So here's what I do: I follow the lines of the projected pattern with a black magic marker...transferring the whole thing to the drop. If there is a general background color, I paint it in first. I have used a paint sprayer for this--sometimes just a wide brush. Depends on the size of the drop. If you haven't been able to stretch the muslin against the wall with a frame, take it down and put it on the floor. NOW, if you're in a shop situation, you should be able to stretch the muslin on the floor with battens. If you still can't, try weighting it down evenly. Yes, I use acrylic. It is least likely to crack when a drop is rolled, because it is the most flexible of paints. Using it as diluted as possible also helps. Now I treat the muslin as one would a coloring book, painting inside the lines with various sized brushes. The beauty of the magic marker is that it bleeds through all but the darkest colors. It continues to give you a frame of reference. Once you have no use for your marker lines, you can fix them with a clear layer and paint up to and over them. Now, if you're left with a too-sharp demarcation line...or a design that seems to flat, you can do what I do: Get a light creamy color acrylic spray paint (or white) and a darker shadow color (you can use several different colors for both of these to match large color areas if it's appropriate). With a highlight spray can in one hand and a shadow spray in the other, I step back and carefully add highlights, lowlights and sparkle. This last step helps to give everything a "magical" and sometimes foggy look. I've done this on drops twenty feet high and forty feet wide...and drops on ten feet high and twenty feet wide. Depending upon the style of the drop, I sometimes let some of the black marker lines remain. |
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Servante Inner circle 1330 Posts |
Oh...I use a matte shellac based clear coat on the magic marker to keep it from bleeding through for the final (Some of it just stops bleeding through, anyway). Careful, though, not to use a wide swath, as shellac based clear coat isn't as flexible. Keep it thin. I've also had some luck with clear spray fixatives. Experiment.
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Servante Inner circle 1330 Posts |
Oh, and depending upon the job and the look of the final piece, I've had luck with other colors besides black. They're also easier to cover.
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
There are lots of ways to do this. Can you be a bit more specific as to what type of designs you're putting on the canvas, what your artistic abilities are, and so forth?
In general, you're probably going to be much happier if you can stretch the material on the floor and tack it down so it's nice and flat. Then, assuming you're doing some type of a drawing, as opposed to a free-form design, you can line it (do the initial drawings) with stick charcoal until you're happy with it. There's a technique called gridding which works great for this. The magic markers work okay, but they do bleed thru everything, which is why scenic artists use black paint on a very thin brush instead of markers. Also, a thick black line will make your design look like a cartoon, which is why I'm suggesting you be a bit more specific. House paints are fine for this type of work. The biggest problem with them is that if you thin them down so the painted surface doesn't crack, the color intensity goes away real fast. House paints are not intended to be thinned down with water, whereas theatrical paints are, and do keep their intensity. If you're anywhere near a four-year college with a good theater department, go over and talk to the scenic design people; they'll normally be delighted to give you some pointers. I'm saying a four-year college because, unfortunately, a lot of the two-year programs... well... don't always do things correctly. Or, you can find a good local community or regional theater, ask about their designers and painters, find a good one, and take him or her to lunch.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Servante Inner circle 1330 Posts |
Mine don't look like cartoons. As I say, you can "fix" your guidelines and paint over them.
Most theatrical paint IS acrylic. That stuff we used to cook in a double boiler with animal glue is rarely used these days. The gridding works great, and I've done that as well...just as I've used charcoal. But charcoal disappears under the paint and your guidelines are gone. I used to BE a tech director in a theatre...and I continue to make a living in the theatre. There are LOTS of ways to do what you want done. The magic marker technique is the most foolproof for someone with limited artistic ability. See? You didn't even have to take me to lunch. |
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leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
I'll talk you ALL to lunch! Thanks for all the pointers!
:) Basically doing some side-show banners for a new project. They will need to have kind of a gritty feel to them, and will be viewed fairly close. I'm not worried about the artistic ability part, was more concerned about what kind of paint to use on something to be folded or rolled up and stored afterward, also, cost. If I can work with acrylic house paint on canvas, that should be perfect... hadn't even considered the paint sprayer idea! Many thanks for the input thus far!
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
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Servante Inner circle 1330 Posts |
More than welcome. As I say, acrylic can be rolled up. People who paint portraits with acrylic like this characteristic as well. Of course, I wouldn't push it as far as impasto, but for what you've got in mind (and for the drops I've done), it works great.
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Aha! Side-show banners.
House paint will be fine, especially if you want the banners to look old and faded, which I'm implying from the "gritty." You may want to select colors that are brighter than you want, so when you thin them down they'll be about right. If you want to add "texture" after you finish the painting, you can load a sea sponge with a very dilute brown or off-white (depending on your design) and lightly pat it all over the drop. This will blend the colors together and give it a slightly faded look. One final note: paint the drop under the same type of lights you'll be using them, i.e., incandescent, fluorescent, daylight, or whatever. Paints can change color depending on the quality of the light that hits them. Oh, final final note: do a dry run on a piece of scrap to try out your technique. You'll be much happier in the end. Good luck and have fun!
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
Thank you everyone! All of this has been VERY helpful
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
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Michael Taggert Special user Fredericksburg Virginia 656 Posts |
The Missing link here is two fold
first yes there are lots of ways to do this. I use a stretching frame that I built. I can Tack the canvass to the frame. It keeps it tight for painting while it doesn't take up the floor space or hangs on the wall. (we paint 20- 30 drops a year) The important thing is that for durability scenic paint, yes may be acrylic, but it lacks some of the ingredients that make house paint thick for wall painting. so they are naturally more flexible than house paint. the colors are also more Vibrant due to extra pigment. I recommend Artist Choice or Roscoe Once you have the fabric stretched you then have to Size it. Good old powder starch and HOT water. This causes The fabric to shrink and fills in the voids. This allows the paint stick to the fabric evenly. Then CARTOON out your design I use a paper pattern and a pinwheel with Pumice to transfer the design then its paint be numbers time. Have fun |
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elbruno New user 57 Posts |
We paint large banners which are used for outdoor promotions in my business. The paint we use is an aerial banner paint which does not flake, adheres (impregnates?)spectacularly and is abrasion resistant. While we paint on nylon, I am certain that cotton canvas would be even more receptive to this paint. It is made by Smith Paint Products in Harrisburg, PA.
When we paint, we stretch and staple the fabric tightly on a wooden frame to size. The artwork is printed on a transparency (you can use a photocopier or your printer) and projected on the fabric using an overhead projector. Then, it's "paint by numbers"...you don't need a fantastic artist to be able to create these things! I've used many different paints through the years...the Smith Product works well. Another source for paints which will work well is Flex Art -- based in California -- it makes a waterbased paint that will even adhere well (with no flaking or adhesion problems) to vinyl. Hope this helps. |
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bluemagic Loyal user 271 Posts |
How to paint a back drop when you are not a artist?
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shomemagic Inner circle Missouri 2232 Posts |
If you are using a vinyl banner use vinyl ink only (for future reference). Rule of thumb for any paint is that it takes longer for blue and green to dry, green takes the longest of the two.if you are using genuine canvas,you will need to coat it first or it will suck up the paint like a sponge.concrete is porous also and is the worst(again,for future reference). Common indoor/outdoor latex will do the job just fine and yes you should thin it down for if you Don,t then I guarantee it will crack. Thin it three parts paint to three parts paint to one part water. Use a sponge roller to roll it on so you won,t have any fibers in your paint. If it is a forest or shrubbery background,then it won,t matter.in any lettering it might.let thatvsoak in and let dry thoroughly.at this point you may choose what paint to use. Oil paint will work nicely thinned down with linseed oil and thinner. Use that mixture if you want greater coverage and greater opacity however,hopefully you have a couple of days to let it totally dry to the touch. If not, you may choose fabric magic markers to draw out your design according to the color matched to the colors matching the design. You can use acrylic or house paint mixed in the way of three parts paint to one part water. It should work. Sealing it isn't,t necessary in either medium unless you want to for that glossy effect.contact me if you are planning on using letter fonts or a mural background instead if you want some pointers. Thank you.good luck ,too. PS. You Don,t have to use that heavy canvas unless you really want to. It is always so heavy if you have very much of it and can pose a potential problem when creating a suitable means to hold it up behind you successfully.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 24, 2014, bluemagic wrote: Practice makes perfect. Find a simple design and imitate it. Your skills should improve over time. It will probably take an investment of money for materials, as well. In the meantime, you must be satisfied with your early results. If you don't want to be patient and diligent, then hire someone who already has the skills. There really is no other way.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Hello Michael,
I haven't seen you in a while. We miss you. I am very surprised Lucy hasn't popped in on this topic. She is a backdrop painting nut! Next time you are here at the ranch make Lucy show you all the backdrops for the Moonlighting Café. Bob |
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
A couple of things...
I have been in scenic shops and see that they use projectors for certain projects. The local theatre school might be interested in doing a project for cost of materials. As a possible resource if you need a tip or two, John Bundy (illusionist and here on the Café) paints all his large backdrops and does all his own scenic design (for many of his props also) he shares a lot on his Facebook and websites on various projects he works on. A couple of John's things to check out are his current pirate scene and decor, his rebuilt Chalet Thin Sawing (from std. to pirate design), and his snow/winter backdrops for his levitation. He posted a series of photos on his pages on the process for each of these. Blair
Visit My Facebook Fan Page At
www.Facebook.com/BlairMarshallMontrealMagician www.BlairMarshall.ca www.ShaZzamShow.com www.MontrealMagicien.com |
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