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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts 
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What is the variation on The Trick That Cannot Be Explained that is in Mnemonica called, do you remember? I looked through the index 3 times and it doesn't seem to be called that at least.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts
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The Trick That Cannot Be Explained is called Mnemonicosis.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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EdgarWilde Regular user 120 Posts
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Read anything by Tamariz & Aronson - you won't be disappointed
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Turk Inner circle Portland, OR 3546 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-10-30 01:58, magicjustin wrote: Wow!! Great post, Justin. Thanks for the food for thought. I do something very similar but I never thought to set the deck up on the fly right under the noses of the audience. (I see from your website that you joined the Café 5 1/2 years ago (February 22, 2003) and have worked your way up to 8 posts. It is now readily apparent that when you post, you really have something exciting and worthwhile to say. I'm looking ofrward to your next post. (grin) And, thanks again for the above thought-provoking post.) Best regards, Mike
Magic is a vanishing Art.
This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto. Eschew obfuscation. |
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Mito Veteran user Japan 319 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-10-31 16:28, The Amazing Noobini wrote: READ THE *** BOOK! |
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-10-31 17:43, edh wrote: Thanks! I have actually read that one once but I have no memory of it. Just remember the title now. And regarding magicjustin's setup suggestion, I agree with everyone that it is a very nice method. A bit time consuming perhaps? But a great great idea! So I agree with Turk; do stop by next year as well, Justin! 
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
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balic2003 Regular user 118 Posts
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Quote:
On 2008-10-30 09:04, SpringBizkit wrote: if you had read mnemonica you would know this method. all I can say: just read the book!!! |
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Andy Moss Special user 713 Posts
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With respect to Justin's idea of stacking a spectator shuffled deck 'on the fly' the following idea has ocurred to me. One might incorporate the fly stacking as part of a two phase memory stack routine.
For example as a demonstration of memory the magician proclaims that he will attempt to call out the identities of all the 'shuffled cards' without even once repeating himself. Now with the correct patter this can be presented as being an impressive demonstration of memory in it's own right. It is also very spectator oriented. There will be interest and suspense as the two spectators hold the cards in their hands hoping perhaps for the magician to make a mistake
With respect to the second and final phase of the effect one might choose to build upon this 'memory demonstration' with a 'mind reading demonstration'.Richard Osterlind's 'Test card effect' might be utilised here since the the method is so brilliantly subtle that a spectator seems to 'merely think' of a card.If the deck is marked or juiced then the stack can be read off from the top face down card -hands off- and the identity of the spectator thought off card ascertained. Without touching the deck the spectator is then asked to name all the cards of a 52 card deck SILENTLY to themselves but to purposely miss naming the card that that is their 'thought card'.The magician then boasts that he will be able to read the mind of the spectator as they do so and thus work out the exact card they did not name-their thought card. And he does so..... There are I am sure many other ways in which Justin's 'fly stack' idea could be incorporated into an effect in it's own right given a bit of imagination and a skilled patter. |
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EdgarWilde Regular user 120 Posts
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The idea of stacking the deck by calling the cards is taken from "Encyclopedia of Card Tricks" - Tamariz acknowledges his source.
The only issue with this method, I find, is that IF you can call all cards without repetition (though very impressive) you can also remember that sequence (how else did you do it...) which means that the spectator might actually start thinking that you can memorize a deck and that is the last thing you actually want. |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts
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I liked Magicjustin's idea. However I too thought about the exact same thing that EdgarWilde mentioned above.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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Andy Moss Special user 713 Posts
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Yes you both make a valid point.I guess that a false shuffle or two combined with a few false cuts between the two phases of the effect would give the impression that the cards have been made completely random once again.That would probably go some way to alleviate any such suspicion of a stack.I think that with a convincing presentation (good acting with respect to the card calling) and with the false shuffle/cuts incorporated we might be O.K. I shall have to do some more thinking. The idea of stacking a full deck on the fly is a good one but perhaps not so easy to use practically.
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Nick Pudar Veteran user 369 Posts
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I wrote about my handling of "A Subtle Game" a few years ago here on the Café, and shared an interesting feature of the Aronson Stack for this routine. I'll repeat it here.
It quite nicely addresses the concern about people thinking you've memorized the deck, and it helps accelerate the second half of the deck callout. As I perform it, I force about 5 to 7 cards from the bottom of my stack. That way each person has a small number of cards. I also tell people that I will be calling out cards rapidly, so they should re-order the cards in a way that they can find them quickly. I suggest each suit in order, but they can use whatever technique they want. I then very rapidly call our the memorized deck order. As I mentioned, there is a nice atribute of the Aronson stack -- there are some nice opportunities to call out "all of like value." For example, when I get to stack value 29, instead of saying "Four of Hearts", I first say "King of Hearts." (Stack Vlaue 30) Then, I ask for all the "Fours, Jacks and Ten's." As the cards are handed to me, I assemble them in the appropriate order, (and keep floating the Four of Clubs for later (Stack Value 45). This little burst keeps things lively, and all the spectators are busy looking through their cards to keep up with me -- no notices that I'm adjusting the order of the cards as they are handed to me. I have had very good response from this routine. Nick
Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
www.stackview.com Version 5.0 is available! |
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MikeHall New user 41 Posts
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Thnaks Nick, That is a fantastic idea I will put into use next time I use "A Subtle Game"
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churken Regular user California 199 Posts
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What about using this idea as the closing effect for a particular group? You get the strength of being able to do a trick like Shuffle Board that messes up the stack in the middle of a set without the weakness of having everything after re-stacking being attributed to your having memorized the deck. Also, you are now set up for the next table.
Or, would it be possible to spread the re-stack over a few non-memorized effects? Just thinking. Paul |
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Andy Moss Special user 713 Posts
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Paul I think it may be well be possible in theory to achieve a stack over a few non-memorised effects but I would not want to try this myself (!) I am sure that more experienced magicians than myself have probably already tried this. There seems to be little new under the sun.
Perhaps the following holds some potential as a possible presentation. The magician might challenge the spectator that he will attempt to 'psychologically influence' them to think of a card as he 'goes through the deck showing cards at random'.This I think gives a subtle cover for the stacking.One might linger with certain cards (such as AS and QH) purposely displaying these cards for a little bit longer to get suspicions up. There is certainly scope for a humorous patter here. I like Nick's idea of displaying the fours, Jacks and 10's at around position 29 in the Aronson stack. That would give another layer of disguise to the proceedings and flow nicely with the patter.The onus now will be on the spectator trying to exercise free will whilst the magician tries to put them off and gently manipulate them with a humorous patter.It will not even occur to them that you might be memorising/stacking the deck. 
Once all the cards have been 'shown' you are now in a position to false shuffle and cut the deck before moving forward with any orthodox memory deck work that leads to the ascertainment (and reveal through a card index perhaps?) of the spectator's 'merely thought off card'. As I have already mentioned Richard Osterlind's 'Test Condition Card Trick' would be seem to be ideal for these purposes as the spectator gets to see that all the cards in the 'shuffled' stack are random whilst riffling through and the cut is subtly achieved by the spectator themselves.Add a marked deck read from the top and you have a miracle on your hands. |
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts
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EdgarWilde has questioned whether the effect "A Subtle Game" gives away the idea that you have the deck memorized. This has not been my experience. However, in walk-around, when I use A Subtle Game I seldom continue to do effects with the stacked deck. I'll put the deck away, do a coin trick or a rope trick, and quit for this group. Or, if I really want to do another card effect I may bring out a deck which is not stacked, have it shuffled by a spectator and then do an effect(s) which does not require a stack. I can end there, go to a different group, and start with two or three effects with the Aronson Stack, then have a spectator shuffle, do a trick or two with this deck, and then move to a new group. For that group I may start with A Subtle Game to recoup my stack, and then put the cards away and do some non card magic.
The point is that it just might be possible that someone might conclude that I had the run of cards for A Subtle Game memorized, but I'm not going to confirm that for them. The suspicion will therefore be meaningless and they will soon forget all about it. Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
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Jay Elf Elite user 466 Posts
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Justin !!!!!!
The "stacking on the fly" idea is really earthshaking! I read "Subtle Game" in Encyclopedia of Card Triks many years ago. It, however, never appealed me. Because the idea itself is intriguing, it's an utterly unconvincing trick. However, your upgrading presentation of the age old "Subtle Game" is much superior to the original, and convincing. Mega Thanx for your valuable post and thought. |
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Posted: Oct 31, 2008 08:28 pm 
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