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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
Sure, I was fortunate enough to personally know people like Vernon, Scarne, Marlo, Carlyle, Cardini, Simon, Balducci, etc., but I didn't meet any of them, didn't know any magicians at all, until I got out of the army in 1944; didn't know about magic shops until 1945/46. And, I'd been doing card magic since I was eight years old. Learned most of the basics from books. In my opinion, most (not all, obviously) who learn only from DVDs become imitators, rarely develop their own "magical/performance" personalities - as you basically HAD/have to do, when you learned/learn from a book.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-24 09:30, Harry Lorayne wrote: Let me amend the sentence: There are some otherwise well-written books that contain copy-editing errors. Quote:
That's why I was careful to stress - "...will pick up much more from a well-written book. Yes, Vernon and Marlo, etc., did create for themselves, but mostly based on stuff they'd READ. I know that because I knew them. But, hey - to each his own. But Vernon, Scarne, and Marlo met and sessioned with others regularly. For a lot of people, this is not as much of an option, especially if one lives in bumble****, Alaska. As for a generation of card men from the 30s, 40s, and 50s learning primarily from the printed word, well, sure. And a hundred years prior, the greatest card men got around on horse and buggy. A valid criticism of video is that it perhaps makes magic too accessible, but that critically undermines the books-are-better position rather than supports it. The more common criticism is that video turns viewers into rank imitators, but again that's owed to the success of the format: that's how good it is at transmitting information (I suspect there's a confounding factor here as well: younger people tend to primarily watch video, and they're still finding their own style; everyone has their influences).
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
Harry, Thanks for clearing that up; and the history. I'm STILL jealous!
Also, I've heard the argument quite often of one learning from a DVD becoming an imitator. IMO, and in my experience, it depends on the person! My interest in DVDs is to learn a routine and presentation and tweak it to my own style and personality. Along that line, there are many strong personalities in magic, such as Levand and Tamariz, that could (and should) NEVER be imitated! As well as Harry Lorayne----who is DEFINATELY one-of-a-kind!
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
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Wizzard Veteran user 322 Posts |
I think both are valid, yes, Harry Lorayne is a very, very good writer and card innovator, however HL is an extreamly great entertainer. I have most of his books, but his DVD set "Best Ever Collection" is invaluable. Not for the tricks themselves, but HL's timing and routining of any of the given effects. The subtlities of presentation is hard to put into writing; where he looks, pauses, special movements, particular patter, gestures and changing a routine trick into something spectacular. If you have the collection at the end of Vol. 2 "Impromptu Linking Card' is a great example of what I am talking about. HL takes a complete fraud and has every one beliving those two card parts linked and the 'in your face' proof is in the spectators hands.
I for one do not want to emulate, Vernon, Marlo or Scarne, but to watch HL work, he gives an excitement to his magic. Thank goodness for technology, because we have both mediums with HL. There are a lot of excellent card magicians out there with extraordanary skills, however you will never get bored watching HL. He get to the point with a minimum of sleights and generally a twist at the end of the routine. You will notice, HL does not do 'Tricks' he does routines and if you watch closely all of those can flow together. God blessed Harry with the gift of gab and a sharp quick mind. What a great combination we are privy to. John
It's never the wand, it's always the magician
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hp Regular user 163 Posts |
I favor books for learning routines and videos for learning slights. For learning a routine, I find watching a video entails multiple rewinds as I learn each portion of the procedure. It seems to me much nicer and easier to have muliple portions of the routine laid out in a book. In addition, I find it easier to add my own touches and patter to the routine without having to watch someone else's approach.
For learning slights, however, a video is better for me since I get to see the timing and important angles to be aware of much more than with a book. Of course, I have learned slights from books and routines from videos, but... |
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MagicofDesperado Elite user 487 Posts |
I personally search out every available resource I can lay my hands on in regards to a given sleight I attempt to learn. Of course this can be laborious but I find that it greatly improves the curve if I can both interpret it myself and then see it done. Seeing it also helps me further interpret how the author tries to communicate things.
I would however say that given an either/or scenario, books win in a landslide. Dave |
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prg Regular user 168 Posts |
I know this is way off the point, but I didn't know Harry Lorayne was in the army in the 1940s. Harry, were you overseas? What did you do during the war? I thank you for whatever role you had especially against the Nazis.
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
No; I got "lucky" - I got typhoid fever (from drinking from a pond during infantry training, because our canteens were checked after a lovely 20-mile march). Got "lucky" because I was in the hospital when my company (Company E, 192nd Battalion of IRTC - Infantry Replacement Training Center - a suicide squad) went overseas. None of them came back.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Magiguy Inner circle Seattle, WA 5467 Posts |
We always learn something new about you, Harry. Maybe you should put down the deck of cards for a bit and get to work on writing your autobiography. I would LOVE to read that.
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Ruairidh Regular user London 200 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-25 12:15, Magiguy wrote: No doubt it would be an interesting read. Wayne Dobson included a short autobiography, a few chapters, in one of his books which was incredibly interesting. Maybe in the Classic Collection 3/4 (What are we on now?)...would certainly be insightful. |
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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-08-25 12:15, Magiguy wrote: + 1!!!
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
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magicgaff36 New user willoughby ohio 8 Posts |
Just adding my two cents to the topic I was a to put it lightly a street kid so I never really attended school and never really learned to read very will so when I started in the art of prestidigitation the only way to learn was books it took me the better half of a year to get through book one of card college then I had to go back and read it again and again to be honest it was almost four years till I read them all and still to this day I hate reading but with that said if I hadn’t I would not be as good as I am today with cards dvds are nice but with effort books will teach you so much more so take your time with the art and spend a little more time to read a book it will pay off in the long run
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ApprenticeWizard Regular user Charlottesville, VA 170 Posts |
My two cents: I love a good book but it usually takes me longer to learn a new effect that way. When I started getting back into card magic a few years ago after a very long absense, the various excellent videos by Ammar, Ortiz, Malone, and of course Harry Lorayne really helped me to catch up much faster than I could have from reading an equivalent number of books. On the other hand, I've recently read Darwin Ortiz's book "Strong Magic" and I can't imagine him passing on such a wealth of info on crafting really strong presentations in anything other than a book format. So there really is something to be said for each mode of communication.
Magically yours,
Tom Olshefski |
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
One other thing to keep in mind is that videos are relatively new. A while ago I bought something from L&L and got a free DVD on false dealing (part of their "World's Greatest Magic" series discussing card technique). I think itt was originally a Videonics release. Nowadays kids can shoot a more engaging, dynamic videos from their digital cameras (whether they can perform the moves is another matter). Also, people in general are just more camera savvy. Videos could and should try to incorporate text when demonstrating a move: put reminders in the side-bar if explaining a complicated sleight.
Quote:
On 2012-08-27 00:59, ApprenticeWizard wrote: I'd readily concede this observation with two caveats: 1) so-called "theory" books are generally aimed at intermediate and advanced students familiar with popular plots. If a trick has seven parts, and you already know each and every move or subtlety, then it's pretty easy to follow along -- [i]"Pass the selection to the top, ask the spectator [blah blah blah], do a double turnover." Novel visual information is another matter. 2) No medium is superior at everything. I read a review the other day that casually mentioned movies are well-suited for chase scenes. Books are particularly well-suited for internal struggle.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts |
For years I've heard the argument that some are visual learners and some are book learners. I got tired of the flames when I argued against the concept so I stopped.
Now I feel better! SEY |
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
"oops"
I always think it is funny that most magicians say how they are " dyslectic" and because of that reason, they can't read books (but mostly they can search trough forums). Magicians must have the highest population of dyslectics in the history of mankind.. |
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jroen New user Belgium 26 Posts |
What about e-books? To me they're a handsfree way of learning that allows me to learn at my own comfortable pace. Just love it!
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