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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
To be exact it was, "He didn't just... yup, he did. WOW!" A once in a lifetime experience. It truly was a privilege.
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paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
Move along; there's nothing here to see...
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animation Regular user 120 Posts |
Isn't real magic simple? If you could really do magic it would be simple no funny moves or sleights just a simple snap of the fingers and the magic happens. that's our ultimate goal to make the magic seem real.
The most important part of magic is the overall effect. After you have thought of the effect you should then start to look for the most deceptive method. If the method is simple & deceptive then this is the ideal effect. Why would you want to make the method harder when the overall effect is the same? When you perform magic to a lay audience magic becomes the entertainment, so the entertainment can never be secondary. Isn't developing a character and persona more important than just relying on the magic effect? |
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paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
Animation,
You wrote, "Isn't real magic simple?" I say, maybe, maybe not. Maybe it looks easy methodologically, but what if physically it makes your nosebleed and gives you headaches? Just an idea. So, these are performance aspects for the artist to decide to paint with, or not. Have you ever thought that if it's perceived as being too easy then it must be fake? Nothing invested, nothing gained? There are times when you may wish to make the method harder; to close doors, to put the nails in the coffins or to lead them down the garden path. Again, goals, aesthetics, levity. I'm not sure which of these ingredients is most crucial: character, persona, or effect. I know that when things "feel" right these things are congruent and complimentary. Not sure that I answered your question, or that you even had one, but thanks for showing up and typing away. Best, V |
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animation Regular user 120 Posts |
That's so true! Thanks for your response. It made me immediately think of Uri Gellar who spent 15 minutes bending a spoon!
You have definitely answered my questions and have now given me some new food for thought! |
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paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
A,
Great! V |
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rnaviaux Loyal user 287 Posts |
Thanks for the reply Paul (and the spelling lesson).
The color changing card is such a fundamental of so many card tricks. Yet one version will have so much more impact in the long term than another. I also think that the goal should be to create the experience of magic not just for the moment but to sustain it as long as possible. An appearing sponge-ball in the spectators hand sure is surprising but upon reflection I'm sure an intelligent person will surmise how it is accomplished. Two effects that I have been working with may be better suited for this discussion. Darwin Ort1z's Signature Card and his Unholy Three routine. The first one I'll invariably hear somehow you got me to sign that card in the first place. Maybe not right then but sooner or later if I run into that audience member again. The Unholy Three for some reason gets under their skin and the same spectator will remember it a year later and say it was the most amazing thing they ever saw. That's my goal: A person who a year later says that what they saw looked like real magic. Another example along these lines: Card at any number versus Bill in Lemon. Having done both in a show; ACAAN using Mr. Close's method and BIL form Theater of the Mind I find the ACAAN to still have most of the spectators at least fooled a year later while a fair percentage have unraveled the BIL method. But the BIL seemed to generate more post-show discussion. Does this mean the effect was more interesting or that they had just given up on the ACAAN as no possible way to figure it out? IDK More and more this is the type of thing that interests me. How do I in a casual setting (my normal performing venue) completely convince someone that they must have seen real magic. If I don't have that as my cornerstone then I don't see that I am making the medium of magic work for me. Over thinking it? Maybe but since I'm not a professional I guess that gives me the luxury of doing so. But when I have seen Tommy Wonder perform it's clear that he has thought of similar things. Excuse the rambling thoughts... |
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paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
R,
What if you'd done the BIL again, same crowd, but now this time totally switched methods, taking into account every explanation they had give you over the last year? I don't think you're overthinking, but I think this is a perfect time to bring up something which is usually counter to most magic text: repeating the effect. Example: Armando Lucero's Coin Menagerie, this is 5, sometimes 6, phases that just beat you into submission. EVERY explanation you can think of is shown to be merely grasping at straws. Here is part of the catch, most magic I see demoed and invented in the last handful of years is biased highly to surprise (as opposed to anticipation) and has a fetish worship with the visual. Following your example; I've found that having the selection on top, turning a double over and back, tabling the deck, taking the top card, cutting the tabled deck in half, dribbling the top to the bottom, while flicking the top card through the cascade, is just as mysteries, if not more so, than some of the best color changes. Why? Specifically because it wasn't visible (not the actions, but while the change took place, thus more mysterious), and it tickles the dream of a layman. Think about it... Speaking of Mr. Wonder, notice he had more than one way to skin his cats. Ramble On, V |
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rnaviaux Loyal user 287 Posts |
Paul - Very interesting idea. Will give this the due consideration it deserves.
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vinnymac Regular user 152 Posts |
Great thread and great thoughts, love the cake/bread analogy too Tom.
What do you all think of the following quote, and how it relates to performances of magic and/or mentalism? "People will forget what you said. People will forget what you did. But, people will NEVER forget how you made them feel." Cheers, Vincent |
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dmoses Inner circle 2261 Posts |
Hey Paul
Thanks for the convo... and for stirring the pot. dave
"You're a comedian. You wanna do mankind a service, tell funnier jokes."
TPR by Dave Moses and Iain Dunford T-shirts for Magicians and Mentalists |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
Quote: I'm looking forward to Paul's thoughts. Here are mine. So many magicians fail to focus on the first and the last, and so are left with just the middle. It shows in how most magic performances are talked about after the fact.
On 2010-03-16 12:05, vinnymac wrote: Cheers, Tom |
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paulvigil V.I.P. 268 Posts |
V & TC,
Great Maya Angelou quote. I don't know what else to say, but that it totally rings true with me. The only thing I would add about this in the context of a performance is to not take it as an excuse to let your words or actions lack. Thanks for showing up Vincent. Hopefully we will meet someday. As for your insights, Tom, yes; sadly this is so... V |
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