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Chris Henderson Special user Indiana -- Anyone w/ no life would have 563 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-10-13 16:52, Banester wrote: Touché
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief"
--Gerry Spence |
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Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-10-11 22:53, Tim Ellis wrote: The Century, of course, is a $24/night hotel in Reno.
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
After a lot of research, Criss doesn't seem to mention where he got it in all of his PR, I found that Criss Angel was declared MAGICIAN OF THE CENTURY by the Academy of Magic, Greece.
This is their website: http://www.a-t.gr/akaden.html
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
Why is it magicians find fault in other magicians accomplishments?
If an organization, any organization, wants to give an award/praise/etc. for whatever reason, it's their right. Since when was the "Magician Police Force" ever established? There's an old expression, "Who died and left you boss?" which has been said to kids who are bossing other kids around. What joy comes from all this? For whatever reason Criss Angel is in our face, the Oprah Show, TV Stations, Cable Station, whatever, magicians want to "dethrone" him. If one does not like him it's one's right, but it isn't one's right to go out of their way to "justify" that believe at the expense of trashing that person or organization. Where is this hatred, anger, obsession, what ever one wants to call it, coming from?
Dennis Michael
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Yes. And if you went to see a movie because it won 13 Oscars, and it was terrible, then you discovered the Oscars weren't "the Oscars" but some other award issued by a local film society where the director grew up....
then BAD LUCK! It's all just showbiz hype! They got your money and you'll just have to do better research next time! (Sarcasm intended)
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Dennis Michael Inner circle Southern, NJ 5821 Posts |
In the past several years, many of the movies with Oscars were horrible.
Dennis Michael
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
2009 - The Hurt Locker
2008 - Slumdog Millionaire 2007 - No Country for Old Men 2006 - The Departed 2005 - Crash 2004 - Million Dollar Baby 2003 - Lord of the Rings: Return of the King 2002 - Chicago 2001 - A Beautiful Mind 2000 - Gladiator
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Domino Magic Special user 999 Posts |
Whether a movie is horrible or not is a matter of personal taste. The problem with Criss Angel is that he has built a career out of tearing down magic. He has created a repertoire of magic that even he can't perform. When your method is stooges and camera tricks, then anyone can be a TV magician.
Add to that the fabrication of awards, some of which have been purchased and others exaggerated to their real value. It equals this - imagine you went to Vegas with some friends and while at The Luxor, you did a card trick for a buddy in the lobby. When you get back home, you add to your promotional material that you've appeared in Vegas at The Luxor. It's an outright lie. It's deceptive (and not in the acceptable way we typically deceive). This is what Criss Angel does time and time again. He does it on his TV show and in the media promoting his latest "award." The fact that he is on TV doesn't give him a free pass to be invincible. He's on a cable network that has a bunch of other "reality" shows. Most, if not all, reality shows are anything but. They are scripted and edited to give the viewer a false image. While it may be harmless fun that Gene Simmons seems to get himself into one jam after another every week, Criss is actually hurting the reputation of magic on TV by doing what he does. It's not a matter of personal style and whether you like the way he presents himself. It's the fact that the guy is a complete phony and even he cannot live up to his reputation in a live environment. |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-10-14 08:37, Domino Magic wrote:
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Chris Henderson Special user Indiana -- Anyone w/ no life would have 563 Posts |
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief"
--Gerry Spence |
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Chris Henderson Special user Indiana -- Anyone w/ no life would have 563 Posts |
A rising tide raises all ships. So if Angel helps magic in popularity that helps every other magician.
But Domino Magic has a point. When you rely almost entirely on methods that can't replicated in any way during a live performance, then eventually even the biggest lay fan of magic is going to start suspecting all magicians on TV are resorting to such chicanery. That said, I don't think it is a good idea to bad mouth Angel to non-magicians. And not just due to the "rising tide" effect mentioned above. It sounds like sour grapes and it is rude to a fellow performer...no matter how he accomplishes his effects. Talk among other magicians is fine, but the non-magic crowd should not think there is any controversy or animosity between magicians. That hurts all of us. As for the hype of using subjective awards to advertise yourself, that's fine. Everyone still knows of Houdini to this day because of how he hyped himself. Hype is a big part of advertising anything. Hype away. We've all seen it in magic ads, and many magicians advertise themselves similarly to get bookings. Nothing wrong with that. And I should know. I'm the single greatest hype advertising executive on the planet, even having won the coveted Hypey Award of the Epoch!
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief"
--Gerry Spence |
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msmaster Special user 522 Posts |
Dennis Michael the Domino and Ellis posts should clear things up for you. It's not a matter of everyone finding fault in other magician's accomplishments. It's a matter of the MAJORITY finding fault in ONE.
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mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
You can hype yourself all you want, but if you put it out there, someone is going to say BS. Any time anyone puts something out there and it is in a public forum, others will comment on it. Occasionally I have had others comment on what I have written on this forum. That’s the nature of putting anything public.
Any public entertainer takes that chance. Criss Angel is so exception. And if we don’t like something he does or David Copperfield or Darren Brown or fill in the blank, we have the right to give our opinion. It doesn’t mean any of us is correct, it’s just our opinion. And you know what opinions are like. (Need I go into it?) |
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Interesting point bringing up Derren Brown. He's copping so much flak from the public over his latest special 'Hero' because the public are adamant he used a stooge.
He announced on the show that he wasn't using stooges. Just like all the old magic TV shows always used to announce "No camera tricks" But just like Criss Angel announced it... when, in certain cases, he obviously did. Magicians NEED to establish trust with the audience in the first place, in order to get away with their deceptions later. If the audience thinks you lied about stooges, camera tricks or even awards, they won't buy into your magic.
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videoman Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-10-13 14:35, Bill Palmer wrote: While I essentially agree with your statement in a broad sense, you can't really compare what worked 50 years ago to what is commonly done today. Television was a much younger medium back then and much has changed. You seem to be implying that Criss Angel is merely buying his time slot (or having his sponsors buy it for him) without necessarily getting a reasonable return on their investment. The fact that he has been on multiple seasons would indicate that a certain number of viewers must be tuning in and enough product is being moved that it is worth their while. While the ratings numbers typically don't need to be as high as they would on a major network, you still have to provide a reasonable number of viewers on a cable show, and A&E is not some small-time hick network that will give anyone their own show as long as their check clears. Copperfield broke into television before cable existed as it does today, otherwise who knows, he very well may have ended up on a "cable spot" too. I think to insinuate that a cable show is somehow undignified compared to a "real" network shows a certain bias or naivete. Without audience appeal (at least to a reasonable degree) you will NOT be able to obtain sponsors, so audience appeal is more important than just "helps" as you stated. Without sponsors you would have to have extremely deep pockets to afford to lose that much money week after week. Also, in your last line you seem to imply that almost anyone could get their own show on "some cable spot" and if that were true you would see a heck of a lot more magicians with their own shows. I'm not a big fan of CA by any means and I don't agree with much of what he does on his show, but at the same time I think we need to be fair and accurate when it comes to the facts, and to imply that he simply "buys" his time slot on A&E (or manages to dupe sponsors into buying it for him) is neither fair nor accurate in my opinion. "If you pay for the time slot, you can be on TV, too." Again, true in an extremely broad sense but also very misleading and in actual practice almost unheard of. Bill |
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mtpascoe Inner circle 1932 Posts |
Basically our point is that network television works entirely on advertising dollars and how you keep track of that is by ratings. The networks is not forgiving if you pull in low ratings. What Copperfield and Henning did was terrific in being that they competed for other non magic shows especially at a time when it was the Christmas season when the amount of specials where high. And they still pulled in high numbers.
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