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Norman Beck V.I.P. 106 Posts |
It seems that in recent years a number of people have gotten into card moves that show off the skill they have gotten with a deck of cards. I hate this. It drives home the idea of LOOK AT ME. I also don't like the idea of putting sleight of hand expert on a business card or web site. The idea is with magic is to fool them. You want to leave the spectator with a sense of wonder and no clue as to the method. The moment you do a fancy flourish you give them an explanation. The moment you tell them sleight of hand expert you give them a solution. I hate that. As an example if your a pool hustler you would not walk into a poolhall run 10 racks of balls in a row and say who wants to play. Earl Stricklen would not want to play you. A real hustler just plays well enough to beat you. A three card monte mob does not show you how the game really works as you would not play. I think of the really great close up workers I have seen they don't have them in the act and I don't think we should either.
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Stanyon Inner circle Landrum, S.C. by way of Chicago 3433 Posts |
Norman -
Good afternoon. Would you explain what you refer to as card flourishes and your likes and dislikes in regard to them. If what you are referencing to is XCM than yes it is merely juggling and showing off a particular skill set. XCM, in my opinion, when combined with card magic is a distraction from the effect being presented. As far as not promoting sleight of hand, do you really think that people believe this stuff we call magic really just happens? I for one am not out to fool people. I prefer to entertain them. Cheers! Steve
Stanyon
aka Steve Taylor "Every move a move!" "If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!" |
Norman Beck V.I.P. 106 Posts |
Steve,
I am not a fan of showing off a persons skill. I think that some of the things for instance that the Buck twins do is very very clever and am no way saying anything bad about what they do . They have put ous some great things I think that when you show off and do triple cuts etc is not the type of skill I want to practice or show off if you will. Do I think that people believe this stuff we call magic really just happens. I can't say but I know that if you show off your skill or put sleight of hand expert on your card then they have a explantion. I like to hear people say "but you didn't do anything" I think doing both is the right response I want to fool you and entertain you both. Thanks for responding. I suspect that you and I have a great deal in common. I hope that we someday get a chance to meet. |
Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
S.W.Erdnase: "You have to be content to be ranked among the common herd". Great advice from a book which appeared in 1902
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Norman Beck V.I.P. 106 Posts |
I feel like I am church. The other thing he says is "Excessive vanity prove the undoing of many experts."
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-13 17:17, Norman Beck wrote: The book is just chockfull of great lines, quotes and eye openers. My version is marked troughout with a markerpencil. I found much wisdom in Expert at the Cardtable and still open it from time to time. |
Ade2010 Regular user 157 Posts |
I think that *careful* use of (non-xcm) flourishes can be a useful method of silently educating spectators as to the fact that there's a lot more to magic than simply knowing 'the secret'. It can be used as a sublte educator as to your level of skill. I'm thinking primarily of table spreads (ribbon turn-over, etc) and fans.
"The moment you tell them sleight of hand expert you give them a solution." I see where you are coming from with this, but: (i) It is my personal opinion (YMMV) that asking the modern public to believe that what just happened is due to 'magic' is rather conesending to the laity. (ii) It is possible to perform a routine that is achieved through sleight-of-hand, but the effect is presented in such a way as to *preclude* sleight of hand. For example 'Ultimate Fusion' (Ortiz)/ Anniversary Waltz (Carter and Eason?) is an effect that cannot be *explained* through the use of sleight-of-hand, yest is executed using sleight-of-hand. Don't get me wrong, I *am* against the whole "I can do this, I am great, you cannot do this therefore you are not great' school-of-thought. I believe that through the use of intelligent Showmanship, the performer has to subtly educate the spectators as to the fact that "Look, if you just buy-into this, just a little bit, then we can all have an entertaining experience" Just my 2p's (3 cents at today's exchange rate) worth. And let's face it, a little bit of 'look at me' is required, we are performers after all. This is just one small facet of Showmanship. |
tstark Loyal user Arizona 267 Posts |
I don't think there are any absolutes. Flourishes run the gamut from a simple Charlier Cut to the complex XCM mentioned previously. When performed as a part of a trick such as the hackneyed "pick-a-card", a ribbon spread or pressure fan provides a neat presentation of the cards and all spectators expect that a performer can handle a deck of cards. If however you plan to do a spread pass, it might seem strange in the eyes of the spectator to fan the cards for a selection and then run them from hand to hand for the return.
I think a lot of the XCM will play in a routine if done with tongue firmly implanted in the cheek. I have watched demo videos on YouTube where the "performer" spends 5 minutes twirling packets of cards in their hands and then begins the trick. It is actually annoying to watch and the attitide is absolutely one of self-gratification. Flourishes alone are only a part of the problem. Performers like Daryl, Don Alan, et al, crafted their presentations over time so that they entertain(ed). Many hobbyists and performers in the realm of card magic seem to want to compensate for their lack of presentation by flourishing. I will be the first to admit that I am embarrased if I show a trick that is replete with fancy cuts, fans, and spreads but I have nothing beyond that to offer. No carefully crafted patter and no semblance of a plot. If you have ever seen Michael Skinner or Jay Marshall, they could work with the simplest of props and still managed to entertain completely without ever finding it necessary to show off. The line from Erdnase is a little out of context because I believe he was speaking about the use of the material in gambling and in that venue one does not want to appear to be anything more than a normal cardplayer. Similar in theory to what Norman mentions regarding pool hustling. In performing no one expects you to be a part of the herd necessarily. If you do not spend time crafting entertainment through engaging storylines, comedy, etc., no amount of flourishes will ever help to make a performance palatable. |
panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Mr. Beck,
In a recent Genii cover story, Juan Tamariz explains why he does whatever he can to avoid flourishes and the consociate perception that the magic is less than “magical.” It seems like you are in excellent company!
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
Norman Beck V.I.P. 106 Posts |
Nice of you to say. I could not hold a candle to Juan. He is really really great. I am just a guy who dabbles.
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
"Well, I'm guess I'm just an old country lawyer, but can you explain..." --Sam Ervin
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Norman Beck V.I.P. 106 Posts |
Yep to say Sam Ervin is just an old country lawyer is like saying that Tommy Emmanuel or Chet Atkins can pick a little.
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Stanyon Inner circle Landrum, S.C. by way of Chicago 3433 Posts |
But Tommy Emmanuel really needs to cut back on the caffeine.
Cheers!
Stanyon
aka Steve Taylor "Every move a move!" "If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!" |
Norman Beck V.I.P. 106 Posts |
I don't know he puts on a great show.
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Some great taste here. Tommy Emmanuel wow!
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Howard Hamburg New user 94 Posts |
In my opinion I feel Norman Beck is one of the most knowledgeable persons regarding the presentation of magic. He epitomizes the importance of immediate connecting with the audience within the first four seconds one first appears to the audience. Norman Beck is to the presentation of magic as Picasso is to art.
Many magicians are not that familiar with Norman due to him not getting out that much. Once you meet Norman and listen to his philosophies regarding magic, you know that you are in the presence of someone who gets it. Howard Hamburg |
panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-16 15:16, Howard Hamburg wrote: It is nice to see generous praise like this...thank you.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
Norman Beck V.I.P. 106 Posts |
Howard, Is to Kind. I love people and love to perform. I sometimes have to pinch myself when a show is over and they hand me a check. My goal in performing is for the people watching to have a good time. If they have a good time then I feel I have done my job. I want to suck them into my world, make them think from the start that I am a Rube and just could find my way into town and then fool the dickens out of them and with any luck they like me and like my magic. I know that it is very very hard to do and when I find a line or a bit of business that fits for me its pure gold. Howard is right I don't get out much and should you ever be at the castle in LA see a guy sitting at vernons table looking like he is harmless be careful as he will fool the dickens out of you even if your firs name is not charles. He is teaching me how to play the rube.
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