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BenjaminMan New user 94 Posts |
Hey Bob,
I guess this is sort of a common question to be brought up about mentalism, though I was wondering your thoughts on it. I am slightly surprised not to see it on here yet, so please let me know if it has already been addressed this week. Are you OK with the idea of magicians performing mentalism alongside magic? Do you think it is OK for magicians to perform mentalism in addition to other magic? Do you think that it is OK to present mentalism or "mind reading" as just a deception of some sort? I think your style seems to be saying that you are a "mind reader" and letting the audience decide for themselves. What do you think about magicians or mentalists performing mental feats as "deceptions"? I mean, I don't think I would ever mention it alongside sleight-of-hand, but would it at least be all right, in your mind, to mention it as SOME sort of deception? Do you find this to be an acceptable way of performing? Thanks, -Benjamin |
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Benjamin-
Lots of magicians include "mental magic" in their magic shows. Presented as part of a magic performance I don't really consider it mentalism, per se, because the performer has already established himself as a trickster. There is nothing wrong with magicians doing mental magic effects. But pure mentalism leaves a significant percentage of an audience wondering if what they saw was "real." This is not the case in magic shows, where they know what they are witnessing is an illusion. That is why I feel that mentalism, if presented as mere deception, does not have the same impact as it would otherwise have. The audience's perception is just different, and that's why I have never considered mentalism and magic to be the same thing. It's not a matter of what we do, it's a matter of how the audience perceives what we do. [I'm NOT saying that a mentalist should come right out and claim paranormal abilities, although I really see nothing wrong with it if the claim is made in an obvious entertainment context.] But there is really no need for a magician to state that a mental effect he is performing is a deception. An intelligent audience already knows that. Good thoughts, Bob PS- There are no rules regarding "acceptable" ways of performing. Style and persona, etc., are things that each performers should think about for themselves. |
BenjaminMan New user 94 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-21 16:06, mastermindreader wrote: Right, I was wondering if you thought that a magician should perform mentalism at all. With regards to deception, I meant for a person who focuses on mentalism, (doesn't perform magic), and might still want to explain to his audience that it isn't really "paranormal." I suppose the audience won't really consider a magician doing mentalism to be real anyhow, but I think they often suspect it to be some different, separate form of trickery, possibly more psychological. In that way I think it could have a little more of an astonishment/entertainment value than just "magic." I mean, what do you think of MENTALISTS performing mentalism as a deception? I mean, not telling them the exact methods, or mentioning sleight-of-hand, but suggesting they don't have paranormal powers, and are achieving it through natural means of deception? EDIT: OK, looks like you say he doesn't HAVE to claim to have paranormal abilities, but would you think it OK if he specifically mentioned he doesn't have paranormal abilities, but is accomplishing it through other means? EDIT: Thanks for taking the time to answer these. Sorry if I'm bothering you, just not sure whether I got my ideas across, thanks, -Benjamin |
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-21 16:33, BenjaminMan wrote: I don't consider them to be mentalists. More like "mental illusionists" or "mind magicians." Once they clearly establish that what they are doing is a deception, they are magicians, not mentalists. One of they key elements that sets mentalism apart from magic is getting the audience to wonder if it is "real" or not. Good thoughts, Bob |
Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-21 16:45, mastermindreader wrote: I love how you put this. Sweet and to the point. How refreshing this was, Bob!
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Anything understood as deception or trickery = Magic.
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I have a mental impression that this discussion is going to evolve into a question of ethics in mentalism. Anticipating that, I have started another thread titled "The Ethics of Mentalism."
Bob |
BenjaminMan New user 94 Posts |
OK, so would YOU consider what Brown is doing as performing "magic," or are his claims mental enough to be considered mentalism?
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
If I recall right... Brown himself, in his very beginnings, stated what "he did".
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Derren has done very well avoiding labels and his persona has gone through several different incarnations over the years.
The key to success in this business is not whether you are remembered as a mentalist or as a magician - it's all about them remembering your name. And Derren has done that in spades. Good thoughts, Bob |
BenjaminMan New user 94 Posts |
OK, so you are OK with a performer who knows what he is doing with mental tricks,
whether that be mentalism or mental magic? |
BenjaminMan New user 94 Posts |
Well I think Brown just confuses me.
Haven't read his stuff, but I think he is being deceptive about being deceptive, if you get what I mean. |
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
I'm okay with anyone who knows what they're doing. But what difference does it make whether I'm okay with something or not? They main thing is whether YOU are okay with what you've doing.
Bob |
BenjaminMan New user 94 Posts |
I see.
I was curious about your views, but I guess I need to think it out myself at the end of the day. |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-11-21 17:01, mastermindreader wrote: A true mind reader! |
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The November 2011 entrée: Bob Cassidy » » Mentalism and Magic and "Mind Reading" » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) |
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