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volto Special user 603 Posts |
I'm wondering, among people who actually use a memdeck - is being able to get into your stack from New Deck Order via Faros and a few adjustments something you actually use in performance?
I'm familiar with the other methods (cull, in performance e.g. "subtle game" and others). I'm just wondering if it's as spectacular a feature as some people say...? |
Cohiba Special user Michigan 749 Posts |
For me, getting into stack from NDO isn't something I use often, but it's a "nice to have". I've been given new decks and asked if I can do magic with an "ordinary" deck - and it's great that I can then go into stack work. It's also a very minor convenience to go into stack quickly whenever I open a new deck - even if just to practice.
What I like better, however, is the ability to go the other direction - from stack to NDO. This is a killer ending to any routine. |
Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
I agree with Cohiba -- it's going from stack to NDO that counts more than anything.
However, out the millions/billions decks of cards out in the world, the most common order is NDO. No one other than a magician will hand a deck in Aronson order. There have been a few fortunate times where I'm given a new deck; it's great to be able to shuffle them into a memorized stack.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
I posted this same quibble on another thread, but NDO is not an order you can get into from the Mnemonica Stack. Yes, you can get all of the same suits together in suits running from Ace to King. But the next time you open a new deck (in the United States) take a look at the order of the cards. Two suits run from Ace to King, but the other two run from King to Ace.
Dennis Loomis P.S. Which is not to say that you can't get the suits grouped together and running from Ace to King. And it's a strong ending. But it's not New Deck Order exactly.
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
j100taylor Inner circle 1198 Posts |
To a lay person it is.
Lakewood, Ohio
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-24 13:32, j100taylor wrote: Maybe. For those that don't play cards or don't play cards often you are probably right. But for those that play cards and open decks often, it's not. It's an impressive feat either way, I just don't see why everyone insists that it's NDO. But I stand by what I said... it's a "quibble." Denny
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
The first stack I truly played with and used was an idea picked up from Mike Skinner: take a new pack and give it five faros. Now you're only three shuffles from NDO. Eventually, I changed to one where I displaced the diamonds with the spades and gave it four faros. This has the advantage of stay stack configuration, and it's what I believe Darwin Ortiz uses (though he's never published anything stack specific).
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
j100taylor Inner circle 1198 Posts |
Only five faros and three shuffles away from NDO. That sounds like a practical and entertaining trick. What patter do you you use as you try and butt the cards together and try and get them to weave perfectly five times in a row?
Lakewood, Ohio
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
As noted earlier, the better feature of the two is going into NDO from a stack. Assuming the cards begin in NDO, you would have to create a set. A gifted gabber could execute the faros while launching into their spiel, and be ready in under a minute. Alternatively one could execute a couple shuffles, then perform a trick that does not disturb the order. Execute a couple more shuffles. Or make a couple of the shuffles sufficiently flourish that they are part of the presentation (e.g., cascading the cards, giant fan). It won't be easy but it's not impossible. Realistically, situations where this does arise are laid back and informal. It's not a Herculian task...
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
j100taylor Inner circle 1198 Posts |
Show me Mr Cain...
Lakewood, Ohio
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Justin W. Loyal user Kansas 237 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-11-25 00:11, j100taylor wrote: Crack open your copy of Mnemonica and you can find all these answers for yourself. |
Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1550 Posts |
People have shuffled new decks into Si Stebbins order. The above-mentioned Mnemonica (which, in my view, involves more finessing than five simple out faros) has also been used.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
Cohiba Special user Michigan 749 Posts |
Not only that, but the trick "Unshuffled" uses I believe 6 perfect faros. Granted, you are calling attention to the shuffles, but it's not worth doing the trick if you can't do them quickly and cleanly. Plenty of people do this trick. As Cain and I primarily use the stack, 3 faros to (essentially) NDO is very doable.
As to the "not strictly NDO" comments - my stack isn't strictly NDO either, but then, I don't end by saying "...and now the cards are in NDO!". Showing that the hearts, clubs, spades, and diamonds are all in order is the point - not that they're in the same order as when you opened the box. Showing them all in order accomplishes what you're trying to show - you have complete and unbelievable control of a pack of cards (magic). I think anyone would agree that no one is going to question this - magician or lay person. My gripe with Mnemonica is that to get into it from USA NDO, you have to run 26 cards singly first. Though it's not something you do often (as mentioned previously), that would never fly. At least in the stack I use (which is similar to Cain's), the minor adjustments needed can be easily pulled off in front of an audience. |
volto Special user 603 Posts |
Skinner used "loosen them up" as motivation for heavy shuffling at the start of his set. I think Tamariz mentions counting the cards / checking they're all there as motivation for long sequences of runs at the start of his? Maybe I got that from Rusduck.
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
Cohiba is right about NDO. I'm just an old stickler for the language. Accurate communication means paying attention to details. So I was/am more concerned about the conversation on the Café. The effect of having all of the cards end up in A to K order in segregated suits is a strong ending. I just don't see calling that order something which it is not.
And yes, having to run 26 singles before doing your Faros does look suspicious. You can probably make it seem more plausible by using appropriate patter. Dennis Loomis... but call me Denny
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
JanForster Inner circle Germany ... when not traveling... 4190 Posts |
If you see different brands like Fournier NDO is different. So I think it is no big deal, you always can sell to normal people Ace through King as NDO. Jan
Jan Forster
www.janforster.de |
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