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davidakicreations New user Preston 42 Posts |
Hi,since I've been creating my free lessons on my YouTube channel.
I've come across many people who believe that as long as you're funny, technique doesn't matter. As long as you're funny, it'll cover up poor lip control. I'm posting this as a friendly debate to see how many people believe comedy comes before technique, or how many people believe that technique comes before comedy. My personal opinion is technique comes before comedy. In the vodevil days you had to be an impressive ventriloquist before you was funny. Scripts weren't funny, however the technique was impressive (granted this doesn't apply to everyone). Personally, if you're going to call yourself a vent, you have to be able to confidently talk without moving your lips. Now, every now and again your lips may move slightly, but every singer does a bad note every now and again, or a juggler drop a ball sometimes, but not regularly. An audience looks at a ventriloquist lips at the start of an act and if they see that your lips are moving, they'll shut down and your act will have to be ten times funnier than it would've needed to be. If you're going to call yourself a ventriloquist, put the time and effort into the technique. Otherwise, go into stand-up comedy, it's that simple. Like I said at the beginning, this is a friendly debate and I would like to see people's thoughts and opinions on this subject. Technique > Comedy? Technique < Comedy? Thank you, Davidakicreations. For FREE lessons on ventriloquism, go to my YouTube page at: http://www.youtube.com/user/DavidAkiCreations?feature=mhee |
Dickens & Dave Inner circle North Central Florida 1813 Posts |
I know this discussion SO well, here's how it usually goes;
-Whenever this comes up, generally, people who have poor lip control will say material is what matters, while those with good lip control will say both matter. -Then the people with poor lip control will say if a vent has great lip control and their material isn't funny that's bad, those with good lip control agree but add if you're going to call yourself a vent, you have to have lip control too. -Then the poor lip control people will say "so you're saying lip control is more important than material", the good lip control people will say "that's not what we're saying, we're saying both are equally important". And they go on and on back and forth basically saying the same thing over and over.. At first, I used to get involved in those discussions, it was frustrating, because there are so many who call themselves vents, but have poor to almost no lip control, and they are so insistent that it doesn't matter. At some point, I stopped getting involved and just watched, it was almost humorous (albeit, somewhat ludicrous as well). I always wanted to write a routine based on those discussions I've been in and watched on the topic - and where did I want to perform it? At the convention of course!
http://dickensndave.bravehost.com/index.html
"Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest." |
Ony Carcamo Special user Manila, PHILIPPINES 608 Posts |
Neither of the two should be on top. Technique and comedy should be both mastered if one wishes to be a good performer. No excuses, period.
Of course, there's always an exception, like Otto Petersen of Otto and George duo, who seems to frame his act as a "bad" ventriloquist who has a foul-mouthed, funny puppet. |
Karen Climer Veteran user Orlando, Florida 324 Posts |
Of course they are both important, but the question was which one is more important. As an audience member, I think the worst sin for any performer is to be boring. It doesn't matter if you are a vent, a comedian, an actor, or whatever. If you are boring, you lost me know matter how good your technique is.
So, as an audience member, I would rather watch a vent with less than perfect technique and a good sense of humor than vice versa. That doesn't mean that as long as you are funny, you can forget about technique. There is quite a long ways between less-than-perfect technique and terrible technique. I think everyone can find an example of a successful vent who had poor lip control and great comedy. You could also find an example of a successful vent who has great lip control and poor comedy. Because those aren't the only two factors in a successful performance or success as a vent. Regarding your video lessons, I'm not sure if you've covered this or not, but I think two things that are often overlooked are figure manipulation and acting on the part of the vent. A lot of lessons, workshops, etc. focus on lip control, but there are other areas of technique that are just as important to the illusion. I also agree with DickensandDave that the discussion is a bit futile. I think most vents have formed an opinion about this one way or another, and very little will change their mind. BTW, your idea for a routine is a great one for the vent convention. |
Aussie Special user Australia 623 Posts |
A ventriloquist is a person who brings an inanimate object to life through manipulation and without moving his lips. He is creating the illusion of life. If you want to call yourself a ventriloquist you MUST master those skills otherwise you a puppeteer. Not all ventriloquists are comics, some are teachers, therapists, etc.
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bearT New user Chesterfield UK 23 Posts |
Unfortunately I haven't been on here long enough to have come across this debate/discussion before so would like to voice my thoughts.
I remember when I was young and watching vents on tv as I was growing up, the very first thing I did was look to see if there lips moved and by how much, sometimes back then I probably didn't even understand the comedy side too much, if the figure was manipulated right and interacted with right, then it was funny. Nowadays I don't think my thoughts have changed too much, the first thing I look for is still lip control, the second is how funny the figure is, not the routine, not the jokes but the actual interaction with the figure. So when the question is technique versus comedy, I have to ask, what is comedy, the jokes, the routine, or all of it? Whatever it is I believe lip control comes first as that alone is the very first focus of anyone watching. However good lip control and a figure that doesn't interact or say anything funny just doesn't work, both go hand in hand. |
Joseph_Then Special user 747 Posts |
If you call yourself a ventriloquist you should have the basic skill of not moving your lips while speaking.
If you call yourself a comedian you should have a basic skill of delivering the jokes. Simple as that. |
junglejoe New user San Francisco 17 Posts |
Here is my 2 cents on this long debated issue. We have to look at this issue from the audience perspective not as vents. Lip control is well defined by its nature, funny is not. That's mainly why this debate exists. Lip control is a small but very important part of the illusion of ventriloquism. who would care if one can talk without moving their lips if they didn't have a figure in their hand. There is nothing really special about that, especially if the act is not funny. A greater part of the illusion is the ability to develop a character that is well defined. So well defined in fact that the audience is willing to buy into the illusion and forget that you are a ventriloquist.
If I had to answer the question : Which is more important? I would have to say funny is more important. That's why people would pay to see the act. I personally put a lot of effort into lip control at the start of my career. I saw it as a prerequisite to being funny as a ventriloquist. I continue to practice and I have learned a lot here, Thank you all... |
tacrowl Inner circle Maryland 1633 Posts |
Deciding on the importance of lip control or comedy is like deciding if your car should have an engine and tires. It must have both.
The art of ventriloquism is creating the illusion of life. The character, real or imagined must exist as a totally believable character separate of the ventriloquist. If you don't have lip control, your ability to create separation ruins the illusion. At the same time, it is your material that holds an audience. If you have poor material, your audience will lose interest. Just having a puppet isn't funny. Just talking to it isn't funny. That novelty quickly wears off, even with strong lip control. As someone who earns a living in the art, I can tell you that audiences pay to laugh. Audiences pay a whole lot more when you have the skills AND the funny. |
TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
A guy with great material and poor lip control will get to a certain level before he gets caught out. But a guy with great technique and no material will not even get out of the starting blocks.
The material (and realistic manipulation of the dummy) has to come first. But if the lip control does not follow swiftly then your ultimate success will be severely curtailed. I am at the stage of trying to master lip control. Looking forward to that blessed day.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
Karen Climer Veteran user Orlando, Florida 324 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-24 17:20, TonyB2009 wrote: Yes! This is a great way to describe it. |
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