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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Before you worry, yes I have people here, mostly my rockclimbing buddies who usually put up artificial climbing towers for exhibitions in malls and fairs. So I'm jiggying this up myself with completely no related expertise or equipment.
Just wanted to share notes with the more experienced here with this type of performance in a mall. We will take for the sake of argument that we have the mall's permission already.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Interesting.
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On May 14, 2014, Ian McColl wrote: And dangerous... Well, at least it should dangerous...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
Pakar. It should not be dangerous but it can appear to be.
Watch TV shows or movies where someone is restrained and start taking notes on the rationale, motivation, consequences, rewards and difficulties. People watch drama because they want to see what happens next. They assume you'll escape, they just don't know how.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On May 14, 2014, jay leslie wrote: Great advice there, though if I'm hanging upside down 30 feet above the concrete floor, there would still be some degree of real danger. Although a manageable danger. I'm just finishing Stunt School in Australia's Gold Coast right now, so high falls and abseiling/rope work is a big part of my studies. Motivation and drama I agree wholeheartedly, as I've been a Professional Actor the last 14 years or so... I'm leaning towards inspirational messages in my Act. Just asking about the technical requirements from those who have done such escapes before. Thanks...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Hi Pakar, I like the idea of 'planned accidents'. for escapes. This can be a very visual way of either demonstrating the risk or evoking audience emotions.
In respect to an upside down escape. I would plan to have part of the rigging move and make you drop, either inches or feet. This could either happen in a practice run without you (maybe a sand bag weight attached) or with you (a better effect). As the audience will actually see a danger element, they will be fully absorbed to see what happens next! “Will you go on?”, “Will the escape happen” and “Lets hope he escapes before any other problems”. Ian
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
I don't know what these stunt people are teaching but - There is as much danger hanging upside down, escaping from a jacket, as a 5 year old watching TV while inverted on a sofa.
If you are doing a death drag, yes that's a different story. If you are rolling across train tracks while a train is moving (which I've done) that is dangerous. If you are climbing the outside of a building without safety lines, that's dangerous. The difference is, the motivation in Escapology is different.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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magic123 Loyal user 273 Posts |
Pakar
My Gut feeling is that if you have to ask on a public forum about Tech details of rigging re. USD Work , you are Not ready & possibly putting cart before the horse . What is your background / How many timees hav e you been suspended USD ? other then rock climbing what exeperience do your friends/ assistants in re. to escape work ? Possibly performing a magic show may to more to your liking and doing a simple rope or cuff escape as part of your act . M123 |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On May 15, 2014, magic123 wrote: Have to start somewhere... Anyway, I'll give it ago. I know of at least two persons in my neck of the woods that have done it. How much experience, well, I've put three months practice so far... Should be ready by the end of the year, hopefully. Just asking for more input couldn't hurt. Magic and Mentalism? Those I'll always perform...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Hi Pakar, which part of the set up do you need some help on? Your riggers should be able to handle most of it. Does the mall have any where to attach rigging or are you bringing in equipment?
Ian
handcuff keys https://www.facebook.com/groups/274871910110997/
old business https://www.facebook.com/Stockade-locksmiths-276492435716704/ |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2014, Ian McColl wrote: We will have to bring in all equipment to be on the safe side. Any things I should look out for that I might not think of? That's why I'm asking those who have done this in a Mall...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Ian McColl Inner circle 1493 Posts |
Hi Pakar, One experience inside a mall was with a WTCell. The only attachment point was a shackle thru which a hook could be placed. A rope block and tackle was used to lift the performer, biggest problem there was the slowness of the lift and the lowering. Took too much time and very jerky. The oddest concern was the ceiling wasn't really high enough for both the tank and then the performing hanging over it. ( the performer was also the manager of the shopping mall, hence it’s location to do the stunt)
Other than that it’s been cranes outside. (watch out for power lines) I cannot think of anything that stands out as something an intelligent and diligent performer would not have factored into their job. All typical safety aspects have to be considered, equipment, rigging, safety personal, and crowd control. Adequate testing and rehearsal so everyone involved know what and when to do it.
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
I've done it from a ceiling bracket in several malls (a long time ago)
The MOST important aspect is having a fast hoist. It's often better to have two people lift you (using a 5 pully block and tackle) then to wait while an electric lift taked 5 minutes. But with a 5 pulley B&T - if you're going up 100 feet you need a 500 foot piece of rope.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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magicusb Inner circle 1135 Posts |
Before Dorothy Dietrich did this for national TV with a burning rope from a parachute ride when she guest starred in a Home Box Office starring Tony Curtis on the show "The World's Greatest Escapes", she did a lot of careful and expensive research.
She first rented a crane at an auto wrecker and hung a motor block from the crane and set the rope on fire with all the same rigging she was going to use. She also had the crane jerk the motor block up several times while the rope burned. Also all of the rigging was put together by professional magician and magic genius Lou Lancaster who was working full time for us at New York's famous Magic Towne House. Lancaster was also an experienced seaman who had great knowledge of rigging, ropes, etc. Some of the equipment was made in the lower east side by a firm that made rigging for big shipping companies. Then she rehearsed it from a crane at a "safe" height. After that she did it outside a mall in New Jersey with everyone that was to do it for national TV. Even so she considers it a very dangerous stunt. Many have been hurt and killed trying this including a person in Mexico, a person in England celebrating a coronation. Experienced escape artist Mario Manzini fell upside down on an English TV show and broke bones and has pins in his legs from the accident. He is quite a trooper and is still working. Dorothy also did it for several months when she headlined and was held over fro several months at Shea's Buffalo theater in Niagara Falls swinging like a pendulum with the backdrop of the falls behind her. She does not do it on a regular basis preferring to do it in a standing position which she developed after seeing the Tony Curtis movie. This has now become the standard way to do the stunt rather than rolling on the floor as Houdini, Randi, et. all did it. It is now in its simplified version done that way by about every female sideshow performer, and a few magicians assistants in the business. Of course, they never give credit to Dorothy, but only Houdini. Since then Dorothy has added and expanded the routine. She is also working on one with yet another new twist
Check out http://HoudiniOpoly.com
Houdini Museum Tour & Magic Show. Only building in the world dedicated to Houdini. http://Houdini.org http://HoudiniDisplays.com http://PsychicTheater.com Scranton, Pa (570) 342-5555 "The truth shall make you free, but first it will make you angry." -Robert Ingersoll-Atheist (on the mind of Houdini when he died.) We are thrilled we were able to bring The Grim Game to the world! Thanks TCM. |
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Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
Rigging indoors or outdoors has rules you should live by. Obviously the main rule is gravity. It is always working against you.
Kristen opens her show with an aerial stunt. She does 2-3 shows daily. I personally handle all her rigging. Before she is lifted even one inch off the deck I fly myself. If I wouldn't go up, then no one is. You should never rig anything above people or fly people unless you know what you are doing and using the proper gear attached to known points. Below are a set of rules you need to follow: Golden Rule # 1: Safety above all else! The owner of the equipment, as well as the users, must use the equipment responsibly, and continuously place security at the forefront of all their plans and actions. An accident can happen very quickly and the risk of serious injury due to faulty installations or misuse of equipment is very high. Golden Rule # 2: Plan your installations properly. Did you know that the choice and design of anchor points as well as the design of acrobatic equipment should all be the exclusive responsibility of a qualified person? For example, such work is within the scope of duties and responsibilities of a professional such as an engineer. Engineers are generally recognized as competent persons who are responsible regarding all matters of safety for the users and the general public. In most jurisdictions, it is considered illegal for a professional rigger to plan an anchorage system without the approval of a qualified engineer who has the authority to certify the entire rigging system including anchor points. Golden Rule # 3: Always choose rigging equipment that is appropriate for human loads. It is possible that an anchor system may have in use numerous components which may derive from various industries (i.e. rigging and lifting equipment) and are designed for non-human loads. Pulleys, hooks and certain fiber ropes or slings and other boat rigging equipment may all be unsafe and inappropriate for the lifting of human beings. We strongly urge you to be extremely rigorous in your selection of pulleys, carabiners and all other rigging accessories. Consult an engineer before making your decision in order to ensure that the components you have chosen are certified for their intended application. Golden Rule # 4: Training is an essential factor in safety. Make sure that you or someone in your surrounding is competent with regards to safety. Anyone who is rigging acrobatic equipment must be trained to do so and must update his or her training regularly. Golden Rule # 5: Your safety through inspection of equipment. It is important to inspect your equipment before and after each use. Manufacturers' instructions usually require that a formal inspection should be performed at least once a year by a competent person (other than the user). The result of this inspection must be recorded in an inspection log which should include the inspection instructions and any other documentation regarding the equipment as well as the engineer's certification. Also make sure that you do the appropriate maintenance of your equipment to prolong its lifetime by following the manufacturer's recommendations. No equipment is worth the price of a human life! Never hesitate to retire from service a piece of equipment that you no longer trust or has been dropped from any height. Conclusion Your life and the lives of your friends, fellow workers and clients are important and we believe that all users of acrobatic equipment should, at the very least, apply the above measures to assure their safety. Unfortunately, we often only realize our shortsightedness after an accident has already occurred. Take the time to ensure that your rigging equipment is adequate and that all system components, including the anchorage and support points, have been seen and certified by an engineer or equivalent authority so that your experience is a safe and positive one! If you can make it to an aerial performer rigging workshop, put on by Delbert Hall I highly recommend it.
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2014, Ian McColl wrote: Really great points there. Thank you.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2014, jay leslie wrote: Thanks... I always have people pull me up btw...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On May 17, 2014, magicusb wrote: Thank you so much for that. Really enlightening. I won't be doing it with burning ropes btw...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On May 17, 2014, Kevin Ridgeway wrote: Thank you, Mr. Ridgeway... That is priceless although some of I already know. Will look into Delbert Hall's training. http://www.delberthall.com/ Currently, I have studied with Keir Beck... Please look him up at http://www.inmotionrigging.com.au/aboutus.html Thank you again, much appreciated.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
My old friend, Tom Rozoff did a suspended SJ in a mall setting in Chicago.
The only thing I would add is to be certain to have your liability insurance paid up (virtually a must for performing anything, anywhere these days).
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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