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Signor Blitz Elite user 419 Posts |
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On Jan 9, 2016, Darkness wrote: |
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
And the forth time you won't answer the direct question. That is why I am done with you personally SB. I don't think you even do magic, or if you do, have any creative or progressive contributions to the arts. It's easy for you to be an arm chair trolling critic against those who are proved to be trying. You are not being truthful when you say you want to have a serious conversation.
If anyone else wants to have a "serious" discussion about possibilities for advance your branch of magic without being defensive, dismissive or passive aggressive, then I would conciser working with you. To help you with options in the bizarre realm to be more interesting and relative to adults (kids performers not so much). Open minded people only apply.
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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Signor Blitz Elite user 419 Posts |
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On Jan 11, 2016, Darkness wrote: Thank you! PS I trust that is will also apply to me receiving your "delightful" PM's as well - |
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themagiciansapprentice Inner circle Essex, UK 1381 Posts |
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On Jan 11, 2016, Darkness wrote: some may be interested, but definitely not on a FCM page dedicated to the CLUB - find a more appropriate page within the Café
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
This thread is titled insane is that about your club? Good luck with your magic in that club which isn't being discussed here in a magic Café forum??? My pm that you are too scared to read but have no problem bullying me here (nice example for the kids btw) was just asking again what magic you do. Apparently none but you have strong arm chair opinions. Typical responses maybe your club Has nothing to do with magic? I wonder why you have a thread here if you are unable to discuss magic? I am discussing elsewhere if you actually took the time to read and understand instead of dismissing apprentice of what?
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Nah, we FCMers are a bunch of softies. Just wanted to clear that up on an earlier comment that some of us (including myself) may come across as a "tough crowd."
Memory Road: I have traveled to terrific magic conventions literally all over the U.S. for more than 40 years, including many right here in my wonderful home State of Michigan (home of the fabulous Magic Capital of the World). But quite honestly, the "friendliest" and "kindest" of all the conventions I have had the best personal time at has been at the FCM convention. Not even close. I met my friend Jack and his wife there two years ago, he spent hours sharing his magical creations with me. Then they sent me a Christmas card this year to boot (even though I could not make the 2015 FCM convention due to a missions trip I was on). It was about 4 years ago at the IWU FCM convention, Duane Laflin started his regular, full set up lecture beginning around midnight (after already having a full day of other lectures). That was a hoot- everyone just loved it. That's dedication! Another great convention was the formerly defunct World Magic Seminar (or whatever it was entitled) held at the Orleans Hotel in Las Vegas- that particular magic convention was set up very well for close interaction with the performers and lecturers- and just a lot of fun to be there. Ditto for the Get-Togethers in Colon. But for the audience being the most forgiving, and having folks/magicians/performers easily available to have long term friendly open discussions with, the FCM is the best. Many of the solid lectures are held in small classrooms, doesn't get any better than that. My point being is that FCMers are not really a "tough crowd" other than we tend to hold seriously our religious beliefs (hence the founding the of FCM). I had the good providence to work for John deVries, one of the first Presidents of the FCM. John loved magic, loved performing it, loved inventing it, and loved having his own stuff manufactured or sold by Abbott's. But everything John did revolved around his relationship with Christ- and his sharing of "The Good News" in the hundreds of kids shows he did yearly. Having been on the road with him, I learned John was the 100% real deal, all the time and not a fake. He lived exactly as he "taught" in his public Gospel magic programs. Magic was a mechanism he used in his sharing the Gospel and his teaching of many Bible stories. John deVries still is one of the greatest influences in my life on what it means to be an FCMer. Many FCMers are ordained pastors, including past presidents. Jimmy Lake was President of both the IBM and the FCM, I believe he was a pastor. Rev. Bill Baker comes to mind. Many current active members are also pastors such as Duane Laflin. MagicBob, for example, is an ordained pastor in the Christian Reformed Church. MagicBob and SuZie literally risk their lives every year to go to India- they are willing to do even that. These FCMers are compassionate selfless performers, and to know some of them is a privilege. That is why I cringe if folks may think of us as a "tough crowd" when so many FCMers are directly working in prison ministries, nursing homes, Sunday Schools, mission outreaches in some of the poorest areas of the world, and/or working with kids in poor areas for little or no pay. It is a labor of love and in service to the The King. Anyway, hope that helps in trying to figure out who we as FCMers are and where we are coming from. As NFL coach Dennis Green said: "They are who we thought they were." As for me personally, I do about 55 "performances" a year, usually in weekly Sunday School, church, non-profit, or VBS type settings. Have done a few prison shows including in Grenada and Bermuda. Then I produce/loosely piece together from time to time a very simple cable access program which is aired here in Kalamazoo, see www.ChristianMagician.org for details. I am a full time attorney, not a professional performer by any means. Some of my easy not really earth shaking stuff (but still was fun to do for sure, often done in "one amateurish take") is also posted on www.youtube.com - can be found under "Roger Bus" or "Roger Magic Bus" or something like that if put in the search box. |
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
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On Jan 11, 2016, MagicBus wrote: Many FCMers are ordained pastors, including past presidents. Jimmy Lake was President of both the IBM and the FCM, I believe he was a pastor. These FCMers are compassionate selfless performers, and to know some of them is a privilege. It only takes one bad apple to sour the FCM organization and undermine all your good work. You may thank those who were dismissive to me regardless of how passionate they are about what they do. I used to be in Jimmy Lake Magic Club out of Toronto in the 70's and knew him very well. Its funny how you assume I am unaware of who you are and what you stand for just because I showed up. Don't assume you know who I am and what I believe or stand for. I think Jimmy would also be disappointed in the welcoming I just received here. Coming with alternative ideas and wishing to lend a helping hand to those in magic. I came out with a religious routine and prop. Not many creators would have done that. I am raising awareness in my own way while trying to be innovative to the arts (I'm sure Jimmy would have approved!). I am tackling the Seven Sins next, like it or not. This is my calling and I hope you would have been more encouraging and supportive regardless of your strong held beliefs. Shameful really, as this is not how you represent, no matter how much good work those guys do on the side, there is zero excuse for poor form. You decide on what is fair and reasonable in this discussion. I also lived in Bermuda for almost ten years, good on you to include them in your prison circuit. Now you may see what a very small world it is. We are all family, some closer than others. I'm the black sheep apparently and I'm ok with that. See you in the afterlife...
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Small, small world.
I had the great privilege to see Jimmy perform at the FCM convention at Winona Lake, Indiana way back when (probably first in 1971). There was a picture published of me as a teen in "The Christian Conjurer" performing at that same 1971 or 1972 convention. Small, small world. Jimmy always performed flawlessly, his routines were as close to perfectly done as I have ever seen. Pure class, great message. As for the Bermuda prison, it is located over a hill so it cannot be seen from where the cruise ships are docked. MagicBob, SuZie and myself hauled all our stuff up a steep hill before getting to the prison gates. After all checked in, we were performing in a very large flat room. When the scheduled time for the program was to begin, there were about 3 guys there. Then a huge human being came in, all sweaty from working in the courtyard. He asked what we were doing- we said we were about to do a magic show! Immediately he yelled out for ALL the men to come in from the outside and watch the show. Next thing we knew, the room was jammed, all the chairs taken, men sitting in the window sills, standing, etc.. It turned out to be a terrific show, and the men just seem delighted with every trick done. At the end of the program, SuZie did one of her wonderful Gospel chalk art pictures to music- and her picture was based on the common sites on the island. MagicBob said it was the prison "with the best view in the world." I absolutely loved Bermuda, we did about 20 shows there including at the local homeless shelter (which was pretty small, Bermuda is a rich island), some churches, and most of them were on the docked "Logos Hope" ship stage (and some our videos at www.ChristianMagician.org were filmed live from that ship while we were in Bermuda). The kids and people of Bermuda were fantastic. Loved the "unfinished cathedral" there. The British pub food was also fantastic. Just a great experience! And yes, I remember Jimmy being from Canada- he did one of the best rope routines I have ever seen. |
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Whoops, I posted "small, small world" twice.
Anyway, I was just trying to put in my two cents worth again that the FCM has a great number of classy and service minded folks. Painting with an overly broad brush to shame it as an entire organization is probably fairly easy to do, especially when the remarks here are based on a few posts on The Magic Café' that 95% of FCMers probably never read, contribute to, or could care less about. If Mr. Darkness posts in other areas on The Magic Café' regarding the occult, that may be more appropriate in my opinion (and we are all entitled to our opinion, aren't we?, I agree having a differing opinion should never subject one to verbal derision. That hurts, even in court). That being said, the FCM has nothing to do with the occult, never has that I am aware of. I am looking forward to being at the Creative Arts Conference in April in Michigan, hope to see as many there as possible. It is a great conference with many excellent lecturers. Just get out of my way as I rush to the used magic tables first! It's like going to the opening of Wal-Mart on Black Friday! |
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
I said "It only takes one bad apple to sour the FCM organization". I was only shaming those individuals for not representing your organization by welcoming new guests in the way it would be expected. I have a really bad taste in my mouth about the whole experience and when I hear the words FCM I will think about this experience. Nothing to do with painting a whole organization with a negative brush.
So the one guy (me) who does care about you guys and makes an effort to reach out to your community I am met like this? That is shameful in my opinion. If I was the FCM I would have a word about acting accordingly when representing to the individuals in question as it is a black eye for them. My routine has zero to do with the occult and 100% to do with the catholic church and Protestantism. It's a history lesson that is true. Just because the Catholics thought it a good idea to burn these people for their beliefs doesn't mean the story should not be told or that it is occult. You don't know the occult if you can't even think of how to use a simple cross in a story. Forget it's a pendulum and the routine I created, it's a cross at the end of the day, an authentic looking relic from the past and you got nothing? No idea how you could use it? Really, if that is the case you are in the wrong business. I hope if anything you guys learn is that bizarre magic is about stories of all kinds, not just witches and demons (although the bible has enough of those but I guess you gloss over those ones too?). Get out and see what is being discussed in spooky and educate yourself with spiritualism and the bizarre and find a way to experiment and advance magic in the FCM. Learn to become an engaging storyteller and less "fooling people with magic tricks" (I'm sure there are better ways than making people feel stupid and tricked while delivering God's message). Yikes now that I think about that is a very ego based, look what I can do I just fooled you approach. I know I'm on the right track, do you? Magicbus please share what magic tricks you use to "fool" people... The Bermuda "unfinished cathedral" is an interesting story, why not make a routine based on the truth of that church and use that in your presentation? It's all around you guys, if you would just be more open minded and creative. Although you could tell me how you are being creative but everyone is tight lipped about sharing what magic they do. That speaks loud and clear. Best of luck. Be nice to others, treat them as you wish to be treated. Practice what you preach folks.
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
As I posted before, I do 99% of the time Gospel magic programs for children, usually in a church setting. My "work" is fairly well known, not "tight lipped" for me at least (in response to your comment above). Read again my earlier post where I share "loud and clear" on youtube (or via the web site below) more stuff than you'd even want to look at. Literally hours of live shot programming.
In addition, MagicBob and I wrote some columns for Abbott's "The New Tops" web magic magazine- always included in those columns were real life usable tricks (links to those same articles are also posted at www.ChristianMagician.org) I "share" pretty much everything I do, hence my thousands of posts here on The Magic Café', ad nauseam. I have lectured for free at the FCM convention at least three times. I wrote a cover story for The Christian Conjurer. In the few times where I have performed mostly before adults such as at a national prison or charity dinner, I did creative a "slapstick" routine (a quasi funny prop based thing I do with MagicBob) along with Gene Anderson newspaper restore type stuff, cut and restored rope/professor's nightmare/multiple phase routine (Sankey), salt pours (Levant), double wrist chopper (Fairchild), or whatever else I had put in my show at that time I felt comfortable doing. Not earth shaking effects, but I still take pride in doing them well. In the close up events I am involved with (such as for Ring 211's Hocus Pocus Party- my picture was in The Linking Ring with that event a couple of years ago)- I enjoy performing the wonderful Dean's Box (Dean Dill) and Get Sharkey (Christopher Borer) and other gag based yet well practiced tricks involving small props- including two small dumpsters where the group votes after watching a trick if it should be "dumped" or not. I have done a fairly complicated sponge ball routine for years (Goshman). My unbiased reaction is that folks of the general public are actually "fooled" by these well known effects- "How'd you do that?" I've heard a lot. Music to most magician's ears. I am an amateur- but certainly I do use creativity weekly- as I perform for the same 50 kids or so every Sunday morning - for years in a-row. Impossible to do that without being "creative"- FCMer Barry Mitchell is one of my heros in that regard and his book on Creativity is top notch (and I was honored Barry published one of my caterpillar to butterfly routines on his web site). As far as other FCMers being creative, MagicBob and SuZie (who I do shows with once in awhile) are creative geniuses- MagicBob is actually a member of Mensa and SuZie has an art degree from the prestigious Kendall School Design. They are constantly creating new routines, tricks and chalk art(and then sharing those ideas at FCM conventions for free). MagicBob also runs his own magic school classes. So I can't speak for the "everyone" you spoke about, but the FCMers I personally know do actually "practice what they preach." Del Wilson has shown me a magic effect- then given it to me on the spot. Same for my friend Jack who I met at FCM (and who gave me free dozens of clever things he had dreamed up). Again, this my subjective unedited two cents worth to respond particularly to your last paragraph of your last post. I have been treated very well in the FCM and have tried to do the same to others. Snowy cold day here in Michigan, all my appointments today have cancelled out, so have lots of time to type up this yet another long winded post real quick. Have a great day all, enjoyed the discussion, as I am always eager to "defend" the FCM in general as it is a fine non-profit organization in my judgment. I have no idea if all the posters here are FCM members, but I am (and I also serve as free legal counsel for the FCM if needed). Fired Up and Psalm 67 everyone! |
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
The FCM needs no defending but the members could be a little less defensive and represent accordingly is the take away.
Thanks for your response. I'm sure it's mostly kids performers here. So what I wrote does not even apply unless you perform for adults. You don't, so the conversation and value to you is minimal which was the basis for this discussion. I guess stating the obvious is not so obvious. I was clearly addressing adult performers. You guys should look at the reasons there are not a lot of visitors or a larger percentage of engaging discussions here to at least build more interest. But I understand your challenges better now. I just wish you guys did as well.
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Hey, easy there, there you go again, maybe kinda inferring I or any of "us" are not qualified to have an opinion on your adult only product being strangely hawked here.
I went on tour with a national magician (and appeared on his stage as his assistant) whose audiences were probably 75% adult. I literally have been in the audience of at least 100+ magic shows, including those in Vegas, not to mention the hours of magic video watching I wasted my youth on. As an adult, and you presented your "pendulum" to me, do you think I would sit back in shocked amazement and total wonder? Come on, get real. I saw Vernon's live lecture at the TOAM convention in Dallas (where we were also on the evening show per above), that was about the closest I ever got to that personal wonderment/fooled/killed reaction. One can in fact have a differing valid opinion on the use of a pendulum from an occult web site in Gospel magic without being falsely labeled. And maybe, just maybe, we should not all be brushed aside with the silly generality we as a group are uncreative, closed minded, tight lipped, or now even FCMers not willing to meet challenges. Without fear of embarrassment or ridicule, I personally see absolutely zero use for any of the products seen on the occult web site that you originally linked us to for the use in what is commonly known as "Gospel magic". Is that ok with you? Ok to have an opinion that differs from yours? Or am I too now subject to Darkness dismissal and/or ridicule? You must be an old fuddy duddy too. I first met Jimmy Lake in 1971 when I was a teen, he already was pretty old then. You said you knew him well. Not well enough apparently, Jimmy was an extremely conservative evangelical Christian- so conservative- he'd generally only wear a suit and tie when he performed on the FCM stage. I am quite certain he'd have zero use (and I do mean zilch) for your pendulum product in any context using it as a way to present the truth of God's Word to adults (or anybody else for that matter). Parting two bits: leave the FCM alone, go bash the IBM or SAM and see how that flies (I am also a IBM and SAM member). The close minded intolerant person is one who cannot tolerate people not agreeing with them. Toleration includes your posting on this "convention" area FCM portion of The Magic Café', when you are not a member of the FCM nor understand or remotely agree to its mission statement. The toleration has been, can you even imagine, from the FCMers who have attempted to respond. Go figure. This will be my last post on this train wreck, posting this today as it is another snowy day here in Michigan and I am bored. But even boredom can't justify my continuing with this post. I hope you seriously read "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" or "Mere Christianity" or "The Case For Christ" and rethink what The Bible is all about in its clear and basic commonly held understanding. These are great books, they helped change my life from my hippie dippy days as a student living in Ann Arbor. I do wish you all the best, but "defending" is necessary sometimes especially when the attacks on an entire group of people are unmerited. That's what us attorneys do (I am a University of Michigan grad- not from some hack school- so don't jump to that conclusion either). |
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Darkness Inner circle 1626 Posts |
Just call them as I see them based on my experience here which anyone can read for themselves. My post was for people who are looking for alternative routines to entertain adults not kids.
I get that it's not your thing you don't have to keep defending your position.You will have to excuse me Im going to spend my time and energy where is it needed and appreciated. I want to talk about routines not semantics or debating with non believers (those who are unable to imagine using routines based on the darker stories from church history and the bible). Have a good one. If you need to get the last word no problem I understand go for it.
THE SUPERNATURAL ILLUSIONIST & EFFECTS CREATOR WWW.MRDARKNESS.COM
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MagicBus Inner circle Kalamazoo, Michigan 2869 Posts |
Nope.
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
I continue to meet Christians in many areas of my life.
These include A. At my regular gig at a High school B. Volunteer work at a homeless shelter C. Among local magicians and variety entertainers D. Musicians I'm studying / Listening to the end of a 5 year Bible Bus Of course it is on Revelation I love how the pastor ties the Old Testament together. There are all themes from light to heavy. I have used light humor to tearful Testimony to His Ministry. He Is Risen Spoiler Alert... It is finished Love and prayers I'm Still too old to know it all
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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