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Ado Inner circle New York City 1033 Posts |
Could the TV shows that show magic offer to endorse the IBM?
Could the stars who get interviewed mention that they belong(ed) to the IBM? Shawn did a great job of mentioning the IBM in his recent videos. Awareness goes a long way, and it wouldn't hurt celebrities to mention us... P! |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
That would be great, Ado. Certainly worth pursuing. One problem is that the programs are not technically "theirs" to do as they please. Sponsors, producers, and network execs all have a level of control and set limits that might make it difficult. Worth looking into, though.
One thought here is local public access programming. Cable companies are required by law to provide a certain number of local programs on a public access channel. All it takes for an enterprising Ring is to take a few classes at around $100 and schedule studio time.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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JohnnyPD New user 43 Posts |
Well I'm the last person who should be posting my thoughts, since I am not yet a member of IBM. I was planning on submitting my membership this week upon receiving my bi-weekly pay. Now after reading all that I have read in this post there might be some that would think a person might be deterred from joining, what with there seeming to be some dissension amongst the ranks. But any group as large as this one better have some dissension, otherwise it's members would all seem to be of one mind rather than the thousands of minds that they are.
This organization reminds me of another one I currently belong. The organization to which I belong has a very long history. It's an organization of prestige and mystery with 14 US Presidents having belonged, which include the father of our country, George Washington. Benjamin Franklin was an active member of this group and became the Grand Master of Pennsylvania. By now I'm sure you've guessed this organization, The Free Masons or Masons. I am a current and active member of a local Masonic Lodge and much of what I've read here is echoed through our halls as well. We've seen our memberships dwindle and if you were to stop into any local lodge you'd find more retired folks than you would those still young enough to be working. They've tried a number of things to increase membership and I don't agree with them all. One thing in particular that was changed (that I wish hadn't) was the whole process of becoming a Master Mason. There are three degrees leading up to a Master Mason and there used to be a very difficult "prove up" effort that the potential member was required to do to advance to the next degree. This has been replaced with a 10 question multiple choice test given in a pamphlet where the answers to all the questions can be found on the preceding pages. There was talk here about deferring dues from a member who has been an active member for 50 years and it was even stated that no one knew of any organization that did such a thing. Well, I do... Free Masons. Once a member has had 50 continuous years of dues paying membership, then they are no longer required to pay their yearly dues to maintain their membership. I do believe the youngest an IBM member can be is 18, since there's the youth group that carries them to 18. The same is true in Masonry. The reason I say this is that the earliest age an 50-year member would be is 68 years of age. Of course doing such a thing in the IBM would require some analysis of the impact this would and could have upon the number of dues paying members. If the average age of members has increased and continues to increase, then instituting such a benefit could very negatively impact the overall group. Imagine if total annual dues were instantly cut in half. What impact would that have on the group? And let me say, my hat is off to Skip for his commitment and involvement in the group and for his willingness to listen to everyone and take suggestions to the governing board for the group. I can echo what Skip stated as it relates to my involvement in Freemasonry, if you don't like the way things are heading - then be an advocate for change. There's an old saying, "Either you're part of the solution or you're part of the problem." I think that statement if very appropriate from what I've read, but of course... I am an outsider and not in ANY position to voice any opinions or really make any statements about the IBM or it's members. I anticipate this changing very soon (my position to speak and act as a member) and I will confirm that change when it comes. I've come to magic performing very late in life. I am already a grandfather. When I first began learning magic from a performance perspective, I came upon a highly recommended book that all magicians should read, Mark Wilson's Complete Course In Magic. Since I am old enough to remember watching Mark and Nani Darnell on TV and him being really the very first professional magician I can recall seeing, I eagerly picked up his book and started reading. In his forward he talks about being a grandfather and how one day he overheard (or heard about) his grandkids moaning and groaning about being forced to go to grandpa and grandmas house. At first he was heart-broken until he heard the kids moaning turn to excitement when they learned it was grandpa Mark's house where they were heading. The kids excitedly said, "Alright, he's really cool. He does magic." I'm telling the story very badly, but you get the gist. This helped to fuel my interest, since I too am a grandfather. My grandkids (twins - boy and a girl) just turned three years old and I've shown them maybe a couple of tricks. I'm waiting for them to get just a little bit older and for me to get just a little bit better. My point is that I want love to impart to them a love of magic and an appreciation for the art of magic. They might not become professional magicians but they might just start a life-long love of magic and might just become a magic hobbyist - the next generation of members in the IBM? It could happen. I really enjoyed watching all the, "Dynamo: Magician Impossible" shows. If anyone has watched any of his shows, then you'll know he quite often will credit his grandfather for having instilled in him a love of magic. I know if I did or do become a magician of any real accomplishment or skill then one of the things I think I'd really enjoy doing would be mentoring and sharing my magic with eager young apprentices. I guess that's what I kind of imagined the IBM to be, but I also realize that vision had been seen while I was wearing my eternally optimistic rose-colored glasses. There are many represented here who obviously care, otherwise they wouldn't even spend the time it takes to type up their words, whether those words are ones of praise or ones of grievance. There is much hope that can be imagined with the passion and caring expressed here. I look forward to jumping into my local ring quite soon. Oh...and if you've gotten this far with reading my rambling post, then THANK YOU!
Magic is believing in yourself. If you can do that, you can make anything happen.
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JohnnyPD New user 43 Posts |
Oh and Mr. Dick Oslund, you are very correct sir. My Masonic lodge is one of the bigger ones in our state as far as number of members. I don't know exactly how many it is but it's around 400. But stop by our regular first Thursday of the month meeting (how did you know it was on Thursdays? H!) and we're hard pressed to have enough people to fill all the positions needed to perform the ritual of opening the lodge.
For many the biggest benefit to being a Master Mason and a member of a Masonic Lodge is that you then qualify to be a Shriner (I have no interest in that). Where alcohol is strictly forbidden in and around a Masonic Lodge, it is freely consumed in large quantities at the Shrine Temple.
Magic is believing in yourself. If you can do that, you can make anything happen.
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts |
I think ATL makes some VERY valid points.
The "Benefits" of joining are honestly... lame. I think you should look at Penguin Magic for ideas... They are doing a way better job then IBM and SAM. Online Lectures, both Live and available for purchase as archives. Affordable Regional Expos. The Magic Live Conventions are mini-conventions presented around the country. You pay $10 to get in, but with that you get a $10 Voucher to spend at the booths so you basically pay nothing. They ALSO have a monthly publication. I'm not trying to down the IBM or SAM... they both have a neat history. I used to attend IBM meetings as a kid and they were a lot of fun but times have changed. I know someone mentioned this generation is all about "me, me & me" but honestly... why should I want to join the IBM if it doesn't benefit me? What does IBM do that is worth supporting? If IBM ceased to exist... what major changes would we see? I would imagine the strong local rings would continue just fine on their own. Personally... One of the only benefits for me is you have to be a member of IBM or SAM in order to apply for the Academy of Magical Arts. That's an organization I would like to join! There is an idea... the IBM, SAM, and Academy of Magical Arts could team up. What that means... I'm not sure.. but I think together, they could do alot. |
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Matthew Crabtree Special user 611 Posts |
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On Mar 26, 2016, thomasR wrote: What does the Magic Castle offer that grabs you that the IBM or SAM does not have. I mean it is close to $700 a year to be a member of the Castle. Not that I'm knocking that. But what about the Castle makes it stand out over the other groups like the IBM SAM Magic Circle ect. ect.? Quote:
On Mar 26, 2016, thomasR wrote: But there are befits for you as a member. There is the entire back catalog of the Linking Ring. That right there is more magic than a person could use in a life time, not to mention the advise and wisdom that can be found in there. Also, yes Penguin has a magazine but it is light when you look at it next to the Linking Ring, M-U-M, Genii, and the others out there. There is the access to the insurance. Not sure how much your perform in a professional setting, but having a way to get the insurance is a nice thing. Quote:
On Mar 26, 2016, thomasR wrote: You know Penguin is a magic retailer and publisher not a fraternal organisation. The Magic Live Expo is done in conjunction with the local IBM and SAM groups. Also, the IBM did a set of FREE local mini conventions last year called IBM JAM (Just About Magic). There was no pay $10 in advance and get a voucher or $10 at the door and not get one. It was just free to IBM members. As for the Lectures Penguin charges fee for their lectures. The local clubs will have lectures as well. I love the Penguin lectures, but there is just something different about being in the same room as the person giving the lecture to ask questions and have them give hands on advice right there. Like I said Penguin is a business, and their goal in the end is to produce things that people want to buy so they can make more money. Nothing wrong with that, but you want the IBM to do the same thing with out pulling in money from book effects DVDs downloads ect ect. coming in every day AND you don't want to join because you didn't know they are offering some of the stuff you are asking for. So that is less dues coming into the IBM which means they can do less and less each year.
National First Vice President
The Society of American Magicians |
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts |
Magic Castle -
Well the Academy of Magical Arts is... simply the best in my opinion. First of all I see what they are doing. They have done so much to make magic a serious art. It's not just about them. They invite the public to see a variety of magic performed nightly in an elegant setting. Bar Magic, Close-Up Magic, Parlour Magic, Stage Magic. It's all represented! It's a living museum to the art of magic. When I think of IBM I think of a group of guys sitting in a church basement showing each other tricks. (That's exactly what the IBM ring was that I attended). When I think of the Magic Castle I picture Max Maven and Eugene Burger arguing the exact date that the first Egyptian performed a cups and balls routine in the W. C. Fields bar. (Sure that's all in my mind... but hey! It's an entertaining thought! ha.) Just 2 totally different types of organizations. What value do I see in the Academy? Access to a club to see quality magic performed nightly, access to the library (that alone would save me lots of $$$ every year!), access to lectures and workshops. And I don't think the membership is anywhere near that high for out of town members... more like $200 I think? Penguin Magic - Yes I'm aware Penguin is a business. I'm not sure I understand your point. I see Penguin doing more to teach and further the art of magic than I see IBM doing as a whole. (Lots of GREAT local rings.) That's just my perception. It could be 100% wrong. But again... Penguin Lectures, Online Tarbell Course, the mini conventions, these are things that I know about, because of the way I conduct my life. I check online, I'm on penguins e-mail list and mailing list. LINKING RING - Has the linking ring improved greatly? I pulled one out from my magic books from the 90's and it's almost all ads and meeting notes from various rings. A few tricks yes, but not more or less actual usable content than I see in Penguins Monthly magazine which is almost ad free. For a "business" that's all about sales, their magazine has a lot less ads than Linking Ring. I feel like this post has been WAY too hard on the IBM. I have nothing against the group, and I am thankful for the meetings I attended when I was younger. I know some very talented magicians who are members of the IBM and go to every meeting. If I lived in their area I would probably join just to be part of their group. I mean no disrespect to them at all. But I, personally see very little value in joining them. |
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Matthew Crabtree Special user 611 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 27, 2016, thomasR wrote: It was $700 a year just two years ago for non resident members. The local IBM groups has lectures and workshops and a a growing library thanks to the partnership with Ask Alexander. Eugene will tell you he defers to Max on everything when it comes to history. Not all rings were like they one you use to attend. Not sure where you live but unless you are in the L.A. area it would cost a ton to drive out there to get a book. Also with Lybrary and Ask Alexander, it is really cost effective to get these old books and magazine. Hell Conjuring Arts gives away books all summer. One of the books they gave away the the complete Tarbell system. Quote:
On Mar 27, 2016, thomasR wrote: The point is you said the IBM could learn from Penguin. They are two different types of entities. Penguin does not teach magic. They sell magic. It is not the job of the IBM or the SAM to teach magic. Both the IBM and the SAM promote magic. They promote the hell out of it. All you have to do is see the stories posted in the Facebook groups. Also like I said the IBM held a set of the mini conventions and they are involved with the penguin ones. Penguin hold them mini cons as a way to sell more magic. It is not the function of the IBM to sell magic. So there is a huge difference between the IBM and Penguin magic. If there were no money to be made in the Tarbell videos or the conventions then they would not be producing them. Right now you only see what you want to see since you are on that mailing list. Quote:
On Mar 27, 2016, thomasR wrote: here are some great gems in the linking ring from the 1920s to today. Yes they need to sell ads to help off set the cost of printing and to help with the day to day operations. The reason the Penguin magazine has little to no add is because the magazine it self is an ad for penguin magic. The reason you see little value is because it seems you are looking at it from "What can they do for me?" and not a "What can we do together?" mindset.
National First Vice President
The Society of American Magicians |
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts |
I did check and the SAM is on to some of the things that have been suggested in this thread.
- SAM Media Library with Performances and Lectures. - Free 4 month trial. - Download a free sample of the MUM Magazine. And when I said IBM could learn from Penguin... I meant just that. Look what is working for Penguin and what is popular with people currently interested in magic. I only used Penguin as an example. And you are correct. I do not see the value in IBM. That's only my subjective opinion. |
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Matthew Crabtree Special user 611 Posts |
You keep saying the IBM could learn from Penguin, that is true if the IBM wanted to be a magic retailer, which they are not. They are a fraternal organization, a club. Penguin is a magic retailer that also owns some publishing companies like P3, Paper Crane, and Hermetic press (if Richard Kaufman is correct).
The IBM has a library as well on Ask Alexander which you get as part of your membership dues.
National First Vice President
The Society of American Magicians |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Thomas has a point, Matthew. If the I.B.M. had an extensive catalog of magic products selling at a 100-to-200% markup or charged members between $250 and $750 a year in dues (depending on where they lived), and charged every person $30 for entering every Ring meeting or convention event (like The Magic Castle), then we, too, could do so much more for our members. We could have a fancy clubhouse with fancy shows and a colorful ad-free magazine, too! But, alas, our Board of Trustees prefers to keep membership fees as reasonable as possible, forego all semblence of 'profit', and serve our brothers and sisters in this marvelous art to the best of our ability ... As Volunteers!
Yes, if we were a for-profit business looking out for ourselves we could learn a lot from Penguin and, perhaps, the AMA. But, we're not ... And thank goodness for that. Those of us who love and honor the I.B.M. and SAM get it. Those who don't, won't.
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts |
You guys are really stuck on this Penguin is a business thing... I was using some things that Penguin does as an example. Maybe they wouldn't work for the IBM.
The AMA is also non-profit. Of course I'm not suggesting that every local IBM ring buys property in the richest part of town, and opens a 7-day a week clubhouse with a restaurant and bar. But I think the IBM could learn a few tricks from the AMA. So what exactly does the IBM do? My local magic club is their own entity with the IBM just as an added footnote. Meaning if the IBM ceased tomorrow, my local club would just drop the footnote and everything would continue as normal for them. I imagine most local rings would do the same. So again... what does the IBM do? Where does the money go toward? Why should I want to support them? |
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Matthew Crabtree Special user 611 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 28, 2016, thomasR wrote: There is a reason for that. The things you suggested for the IBM to learn from Penguin, the IBM would need to be in the business of selling magic and making money from selling magic.
National First Vice President
The Society of American Magicians |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts |
Not necessarily.
Local clubs host lectures. Why not work with the lecturer, for example, to put the lectures in a podcast or other online repository that can be paid for (discount to members of the hosting club)? |
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M. Tesla Regular user Coral Springs, Florida 154 Posts |
Quote:
On Dec 3, 2015, Russ Martin wrote: Quote:
On Dec 4, 2015, Stanyon wrote: Ditto, but I bit the bullet and reinstated my membership anyway...last time I was a member was about 10 years ago..iirc, S.A.M. membership is in the same range so I haven't rejoined there yet...maybe in a few months...
While the amount of water has remained static, the amount of Tequila and Triple Sec available for making Margaritas has expanded enormously. So you see, we have made progress after all. ~Anonymous
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tattered New user Anchorage 5 Posts |
I am new to magic, but membership in the IBM and SAM were some of the first things that I did. But, I should also say that I am nearing retirement age and coming to magic late in life. I am finally at a point where I can indulge my hobbies because I will have time and money to spare. For me, access to the archives of the Linking Ring (and MUM) was worth the price of admission. When I joined I was not near a local ring, and didn't know about Ring 2100. The TVP did reach out (kudos for that) but it wasn't very helpful, due to geography. I have moved since then and now have access to a local Ring but have not become involved yet.
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts |
Quote:
Shawn, The Knights of Columbus does.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts |
Actually, I think the BIGGEST needed improvement that could be made is COMMUNICATION. I sent an email a week ago to IBM HQ statring that I wanted to reactivate my membership (email or phone was suggested in the email I got). My email stated that I did not want to give my credit card over email for security reasons, and asked the recipient to call me asap. I have yet to receive either a phone call or a return email.
It seems that the IBM isn't very eager to reinstate me.
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
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Sindie New user 1 Post |
Mike, It was nice talking to you when you were renewing your I.B.M. membership. Our members are our biggest asset. Glad you back with the I.B.M. If you have any other questions feel free to call or email me at the I.B.M. Headquarters Office. Office@magician.org or 636-724-2400.
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Mike Maturen Inner circle Michigan's Beautiful Sunrise Side 2726 Posts |
A HUGE thank you to Sindie for calling me right away to make it right. Sindie is a terrific lady, and I am glad to be back in the ranks of the IBM.
Now I just have to buy another lapel pin...mine has "disappeared". LOL
Mike Maturen
World of Wonder Entertainment The Magic and Mayhem of Mike Maturen 989-335-1661 mikematuren@gmail.com AUTHOR OF "A NEW DAWN--Weekly Wisdom From Everyday Life" member: International Magician's Society |
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