This has been brought up before and its a subject that I find interesting. I wanted to share some thoughts to stimulate any lurkers/newbies into revisiting this idea.

A few seem to think hypnosis can be used against a persons will or morals (myself included), whilst the vast majority don't. Erickson apparently believed it could be - but said otherwise to protect hypnosis from slipping more into negative PR, and many took him literally. These days I use a hypnotist/hypnotherapist's honest view about it as a gauge as to their understanding of hypnosis (by honest I mean when not wanting to scare off customers etc).

My opinion is that its almost a trick question - because a person's will and morals are flexible, and made of the same stuff of imagination as is influenced in hypnotic processes. I think if the question is reframed as "can a person be influenced to act against their PRIOR will or morals" then it suddenly seems far more practical.

Take people who become religious fundamentalists for example (or any other situation where a person gets sucked into a cult-like environment). Gradually through a complex process of influence, their world-view, beliefs and attitudes and values are gradually shifted until they're ready to do things that previously they wouldn't have dreamed of - and been completely against morally.

Or mob psychology, like football hooliganism where afterwards they say "I don't know what came over me, its not something I would normally do". Under the intense influence, their reality and will temporary changed.

The mental constructs that a person's will or morals is held against can be influenced, to the extent that the will/morals then also change. For example, it would be against a person's will, ordinarily, to give their watch away to someone. But if that person is hypnotised into believing that the person is a friend, that the watch is something else, or of no value, or is being traded for something of greater value, or is owed to the person - then reality will shift to the extent that the act now "willed" - despite being against the prior will. After the event, once the ongoing suggestions of actual reality seep in and the imaginings drift - the person will realise that they acted against their prior (and now, current again) will.

Can a person be hypnotised to shoot someone? Yes, I believe if they were receptive enough to the extent that their unconscious imagination was responsive to the hypnotists instructions, and their reality was gradually manipulated to the extent that they believed it was right and necessary to pull a trigger whilst the gun was pointed at someone in a particular context, then yes that could happen. You could argue that it frequently does in certain sectors (e.g. military training, religious fundamentalism). Similarly, in situations where a sexual partner has a huge influence on the other, partners have been influenced towards terrible acts. Has anyone achieved this more overtly through traditional hypnosis? I don't know, it would be impossible to prove really, and of course from the outside its difficult to appreciate a long-term or even short-term trajectory of influence. We just assume the person acted accordingly to their will.

In my own hypnotic experiments, I've seen people act against their prior will, morals and attitudes. I think once you accept that a persons's will, morals and attitudes are based on imagined constructs, and then appreciate how imagination can be influenced with hypnotic processes, its not too difficult to appreciate just how flimsy this myth is.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

No they can't. If they can prove it. That I KNOW nobody can do.

By the way you are speaking of brainwashing, not hypnosis.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brainwashing

Then mob mentality.

http://flowpsychology.com/mob-mentality-psychology/

Neither of which is hypnosis.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypnosis

Military training is a job, not hypnosis. Sexual influence is just that, not hypnosis. None of these things are hypnosis by anyone's definition except those who wish to believe it is somehow the Jedi Mind Trick. You call it a flimsy myth, yet offer only silly non concrete examples. You say it can not be proven and somehow it is a "flimsy myth" that people will not act against their will and morals. Your own experiments? What exactly were those? How were they conducted and who participated? Where can we read about them?

IN the other thread you called ME ignorant? You don't know the difference in hypnosis and brainwashing and you call me ignorant?

Revisiting the idea is what CAUSES IGNORANCE and causes lurkers and newbies to think this is something it is not. Stretching examples to say that technically using sexual favors is a form if hypnosis is ridiculous. Word parsing in order to get your opinion to seem valid is not a form of research.

Can people be manipulated into doing things they might not normally do? ABSOLUTELY in many many ways. Are all those ways examples of hypnosis? ABSOLUTELY NOT. And trying to claim they are is what is bad for hypnosis, propagates myths and leads to ignorance.

So lets be clear. Are you speaking about walking up to a total stranger and doing the Jedi Mind Trick, or someone who is already a little leaning toward deviance and then using that person? Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing. If you are speaking of brainwashing, mob mentality, or influencing through sex, or a deviant person in general then yes it is possible to get them to do things they might not normally do. If you are talking about "hypnotizing" someone in the sense that we normally think of it and walking up to a stranger and suddenly turning them into a zombi and having them kill someone with no other influence than the "trance" it is utterly ridiculous.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hyp......possible

Blah blah blah blah blah indeed.

"If you are talking about "hypnotizing" someone in the sense that we normally think of it and walking up to a stranger and suddenly turning them into a zombi"

No, I'm not sure if that's how I normally think about hypnotizing someone, but its interesting that you do. Thanks for another unique definition of hypnosis.

Yea I guess reading is fundamental but comprehension is an advanced skill.

The sense that most think of hypnosis is the demonstration of the induction. So IF you are talking about THAT and using it to walk up to a stranger and suddenly turn them into a zombi is what I said. Sorry your genius is so great you don't get that.

You think hypnosis is the Jedi Mind Trick and you claim I am pathetic. Hilarious. What exactly is your experience?

I honestly don't think this can even be discussed until everyone is working from the same definitions of "hypnosis" and "acting against their wills and morals".

Right, which is clearly stated against in the rules of the forum, which it seems few have read or are respecting.

This is why I am asking if we are talking about hypnosis in the traditional sense of hypnotizing a subject or if it is brainwashing or some other conditioning in which the definition is stretched to mean things we want it to.

I see stage work or therapy as a sub category of hypnosis as a whole but I don't think this is the forum to talk about it. As for getting people to do things they wouldn't normally do with traditional stage hypnosis. I think with a percentage of really suggestible people it is possible but not everyone. That's why its important to give proper suggestions.

I also agree with Danny that those examples given by Will ie cults, gradual conditioning to shoot someone etc Are really brainwashing techniques and not really examples of hypnosis. They may be interesting subjects though but just not the place for them. I think Derren has maybe brought this kind of thing into the public eye with his tv programmes but that's all they were TV programmes.


And this really isn't the place for those kinds of threads. I think Danny is right that it will confuse newbies on here with the greatest of respect Will.

I understand the concerns about this type of thread, but DD made some very valid points, which without this thread wouldn't of been pointed out..so as always I have learnt something or at least thought about it in a different way, imo threads like these can be useful even though not strictly about stage hypnosis.
for disclosure, I just have a life long interest, have no desire to do stage or street, just interested in the topic.

Yes its ok to bring it up. Its just not the place to go into these topics in any depth.