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dgiancaspro Regular user New York City 122 Posts |
I posted this to Secret Sessions with the wrong title. I confused The Free Turn Pass with the Free Float Pass. Then I realized this may be a better place for it.
I've been working on my pass for the past month, focusing on the classic and the Hermann style passes. I came across the Free Turn Pass in some discussions and I bought the Ultra-Cervon E-Book from L&L. The explanation is pretty detailed but the move itself is pretty daunting. Trying to hold the lower packet between my right hand second finger and the fork of my right hand pinky and third finger is proving to be a real challenge. Any tips to make this easier or is it just a matter of gaining incredible finger strength? Would starting with half the deck and working my way up to a full deck be a reasonable way to develop this move? Thanks Dave
"Mommy when I grow up I want to be a magician"
"Oh sweety you can't do both." |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Denis Behr does it well. Maybe he will chime in on this one.
I studied the move for awhile but let it go. |
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
I just checked Denis's video. He does it very well and it looks effortless.
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
I just re-watched Denis's demo, looks like he's gripping the lower packet with his right third finger instead of second finger as described in the book. It looks more natural than the pic illustrations in the book, but I find it almost impossible to steadily hold it with my third finger and fork of my third and fourth finger.
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Tough move
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Denis Behr Special user Germany 703 Posts |
Yes, I found the third finger more natural looking. But I have long fingers, it might not fall into place that way with different hands. (The YT video is a bit blurry and old, I'll try to re-shoot a clearer one.)
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
@Denis Behr
Looking forward to seeing your new demo. By the way, greats thanks for your amazing reference website. |
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dgiancaspro Regular user New York City 122 Posts |
Thanks everyone. This move is definitely a reach move for me. Something I keep around and work on in the hopes of someday using it.
I watched Denis Behr's video, it's the first one that comes up when you search for the move. Two thoughts came to mind .. first thought "*** that is smooth, add that to the life goals" Second thought "That guy has long fingers ..." I may be better off using my first finger in the corner instead of my second finger .... aslo Denis is the left corner of the lower packet held in the ball of the thumb? Similar to palming it or is it all across the top edge of the packet? Thanks DG
"Mommy when I grow up I want to be a magician"
"Oh sweety you can't do both." |
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Jamie-boy Regular user Berea, Ohio 186 Posts |
Mark Mason uses the Free Turn Pass. He has a few subtleties that add cover. He also has said that the description is not accurate in Ultra Cervon. I don't know about that.
For me the most challenging part is the Cloyes Palm part of it. That takes some third finger strength building. The one suggestion I have is (right from the description) to be sure that the selected card is in the bottom one third of the deck. Less demand on the third finger that way. Hoping this helps. Jim
James Sievert
Sleight of Hand Hobbyist since 1990. Bassist since 1973. |
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Denis Behr Special user Germany 703 Posts |
Here's a new clip of the sleight: https://www.instagram.com/p/BSOz0LLgtq0/
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Jamie-boy Regular user Berea, Ohio 186 Posts |
Beautiful, Denis!
James Sievert
Sleight of Hand Hobbyist since 1990. Bassist since 1973. |
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Bobby Forbes Inner circle virginia beach, VA. 1569 Posts |
Guy Hollingworth also teaches this in great detail on his new dvd's.
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dgiancaspro Regular user New York City 122 Posts |
Excellent Denis ...
Jamie-Boy: Thanks for reminding of that point from the description. Bobby Forbes: I know Hollingworth has the Free Float Pass which is understand is different from the Free Turn Pass. I saw Greene's version of this pass and I will be playing 26 pick up if I tried it LOL .... It's funny how there is so little work done on this outside of Cervon's write up. Is it that so few use it or that they want to keep it or that they want to keep it hidden in the literature?
"Mommy when I grow up I want to be a magician"
"Oh sweety you can't do both." |
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Maxyedid Special user Panama 843 Posts |
According to the original instructions in the book, the packet to be "clipped" is actually a small 15-card packet, more or less. That's what I remember. I stumbled upon the same problem and I actually looked up the MUM magazine issue where that particular clip is explained (the name escapes me at this moment). When I realized the limitation of the move (the small packet) I abandoned it. I may look it up again.
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https://www.lybrary.com/semiautomatic-card-miracles-p-925333.html chaos handlings, out of hands effects, and more |
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LuckyMan80 New user 3 Posts |
Here is how I manage this most beautiful of shifts:
1. The deck must be well squared in the left hand. A left fourth finger break is held over a smallish packet. This shift is best suited for transferring less than ~20 cards. 2. Widen break as right hand thumb crotch (Harry Lorayne hates that term!) is inserted into this break. 3. The right hand second finger extends over the outer left corner of the deck to make and maintain light contact with the well-squared outer left corner of the lower packet. Focus on the lower packet only and ignore any contact this finger makes with the upper packet; there will likely be some contact. 4. The left hand thumb base moves to the right and pushes the inner right corner of the lower packet to about the same spot on the base of the right thumb used for the Topping the Deck palm. This pushing adjustment pivots off the right third finger. At this point the lower part of the deck must be in a well secured Cloyes Palm. During this the upper half of the deck is supported by lying on top of the inner right thumb and outer short edge of the lower packet. It is not gripped—only resting. If one were to look at the deck in hand from below, the bottom half would appear ‘cocked’ toward the right hand. 5. Contract the right second finger bending the lower packet inward so that it flexes downward. This flexing can be fairly significant and is a nice way to put a gentle crimp in the lower packet in preparation for a haunted deck cutting action. 6. At this point the upper portion will emerge in a more or less clockwise direction from between the right index finger and thumb. You may at first encounter problems with the clearance of the upper packet. Arch your right hand more and widen the thumb crotch space to overcome this. 7. Seize this now emerged upper packet along its long ends between the left second finger and thumb. Curl the left index finger and place the second phalange of this finger on the face of the upper packet as the packet moves in an apparent all around square up dynamic. 8. With the left hand still gripping the packet turn the left hand palm up just clearing the right hand's palmed cards. 9. Bring the palmed cards over the deck and release with as little perceptible movement in the right hand as possible. 10. Bring all into register and perform an honest all around square up. This is an honest post-shift audience conditioning procedure to validate the previously completed dishonest procedure. Other: Bruce Cervon wrote (words to the effect) that this pass is invisible. Some, including Ken Krenzel, for whom I had the honor of performing this, asked my view. I stated that I thought it susceptible on the performer’s extreme left. Dr. Krenzel nodded in agreement. I find now though that if I twist my left hand clockwise slightly as the packets are coalesced, the upper packed is nicely screened by the back of my left hand. Another lovely feature of this shift is that unlike many other passes it is not cozy in the execution nor does it require any extraordinary vertical space. Aaron Fischer has written, vertical space is something in very short supply at the card table. Therefore it seems to me that the Free Turn may be the holy grail of the long sought-after and yet to be invented pass that can be executed by a movement as coincident card table routine. Lastly, a good way to gain mastery and confidence is to use Free Turn get into position (after initial display) for some packet tricks such as Darryl’s Seven Card Assembly. Good luck! |
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countrymaven Inner circle 1426 Posts |
How many of Cervon's great secrets went to the grave with him?
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
I would say far less than you think.
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LarsA New user 49 Posts |
Bruce left behind detailed video descriptions of the material he developed after he stopped keeping his notebooks. A lot of the material is superb.
It is written up. There are complications over editing and photos. But these will get sorted. Meanwhile, we have his Notebooks, which contain a lot of great material. |
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countrymaven Inner circle 1426 Posts |
I appreciate this post. an invisible pass, even for a smaller number of cards? I am all in. If you read Cervon's eulogies, one of them tells how he would do things like papers to bills. but when top magicians saw him do this from a number of positions including behind him, the method was still indetectable. He really was a magic rock star. He lived and breathed magic. wow.
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LarsA New user 49 Posts |
His papers to bills was wonderful. As you describe. It is written up.
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