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w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
Hello oh wise council of the Café,
I am merely seeking opinions here, and I do not want to slander anyone so I will leave names out. I am simply asking "What would you do?" For the past 7 years I have been performing a magic show based on my 22 years as a flight medic then helicopter pilot in the military. The stories and the routines in the show are all influenced by my experiences and not so luxurious travel locations, as well as routines based on performances for my fellow troops. These performances helped me to get on a few different televisions shows of which all were highlighting my performance style ect. I have had a particular name for my show that dates back to 2010 and have had the same logo for it. I still perform this show numerous times a year at corporate conferences, theatres and casino's up and down the West Coast and continue to have great success with it. So, my show manager just sent me an email with a bunch of pics and links of a magician across the pond who also is in the military, who has had numerous television appearances (using the military magician theme), and it looks like they are also using the same name and a strikingly similar logo as mine. I can easily prove my chicken came before his egg because I was using said name and logo before he entered military service. Given that bit of information, would you do or say anything about it? Is it worth saying anything? Would you contact them? Is it even a thing? It seems like this young man is finding great success and I wouldn't want to thwart that....However, I don't want to be known as "The guy doing HIS show." Does that make sense? Am I being overly sensitive here? Thank you for any replies. If you would like specifics please PM me, as I don't think it would be right to name names publically at this time. Respectfully, Wm. Scott Anderson www.illusionsofanderson.com |
jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
If you can show, beyond a reasonable doubt, that patter, images and content is duplicated then have an attorney send a letter of disapproval.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
Frank Simpson Special user SW Montana 883 Posts |
I think you have worked too hard and too long on creating your brand to have someone just knock it off. For someone to "take inspiration" is one thing, but to ape your logo, etc, shows laziness at best, and should be called out. I agree with Jay's advice above. It doesn't have to become nasty, and hopefully the other guy is enough a gentleman to have productive discussions.
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
You really can't do much about it, I agree with Jay and Frank. The problem is, he is in another country. Do they even have Pagiarism laws.
I would call the guy out. He is copying your show, brand, illusions. He is or was in the U.S. Military in another country? The bottom line is, you cannot control what others do in another country. At least let him know, you know about him and what he is doing. |
Rook Special user I went to the Magic Cafe and all I got were these lousy 834 Posts |
Unless you plan on filing a Teller-esque lawsuit (the success of which may be questionable, as alluded to above), your best bet is to professionally and politely contact him, asking him to reconsider his current presentation .
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.
-Roald Dahl |
Stu Montgomery Veteran user St Petersburg FL 354 Posts |
I know who you're speaking of, and he almost certainly doesn't know of the similarities...which might be purely coincidental given the military theme & limits of what logos/photos etc can fit with that. The publicity posters will be down to his PR team. It wouldn't do any harm to drop them a line outlining your concerns...but any legal action abroad (in the UK) - if at all possible - would be hugely expensive. Believe me...British QC's (Queens Councils) know how to charge
"Round about what is, lies a whole mysterious world of might be" Longfellow.
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w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
Thank you to all who have replied, and PM'd me about this. I did send a letter to them after I wrote this post, I also included attachments as proof. I will paste the letter below. This was over two weeks ago and I haven't heard anything back.
Good afternoon, Please let me start off positive and congratulate Mr. Jones on all the success he is currently experiencing. I will tell you it is a very fun ride and to stay on it as long as you can. I have read that Mr. Jones is a delightful person and from what I have seen he is also a great entertainer. I also wish I could tell you that that reason alone is why I am writing this email. I am, however, writing in part due to the numerous emails, texts, and phone calls I received in regards to your show Operation Magic in the UK. There are some striking similarities between Mr. Jones and myself. I am a veteran as well, just entering 22 years of service as a Blackhawk helicopter pilot in the U.S. Army (currently a reservist). I performed on the U.S. version of America's Got Talent with a military theme. Most of my performances are based on my experiences in the service and performing for my fellow troops, and I, as well, perform a routine based upon an old army veteran. Mine is about a helicopter pilot/magician named Bill Martin from the Vietnam War. I also have been using the name Operation Magic as the title of my shows since 2010. While performing magic is not my full time gig, I perform regularly at Casino's, Theatre's, the occasional television show (talk shows, "Wizard Wars" ect), and have become an annual performer at The Magic Castle using the title "Operation Magic." I am aware that I do not own the title of the only Veteran Magician in the world, nor do I have the exclusive rights to perform with a military theme. I also do not own the words Operation and Magic. The combination of the three though is a baby I have been nurturing and developing over the past 7 years. I am not making any accusations of intellectual theft, nor am I assuming that you guys even knew I existed, but I would be lying if I said that my initial reaction wasn't "This dude stole my shtick!" My only concern with this is as he becomes more well known in the magic community would be for my audiences or fellow magicians to think that I am ripping off his act, or vice versa. While I know you are not obligated to do anything here, I would love to hear your thoughts after seeing this. I have a lot of questions I want to ask, but I don't want to come off as a jerk or accusatory. As our respective nations are very strong Allies, I hope to find an ally here in Magic. Very Respectfully, Wm. "Scott" Anderson www.illusionsofanderson.com |
w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
I thought it was respectful and really tried to not sound petty.
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David_N New user Lancashire, England 93 Posts |
Scott,
I would tend to agree with the rest of the guys on here in that legal action is a costly and complicated road to tread. Stu makes a very good point in that the magician in question may be oblivious to all of this and may be insulated from it by third parties. The only way to be sure of anything is to contact the guy direct without any vested interest getting in the way. That way you know if the individual in question is the real culprit here. He may be a member of IBM or The Magic Circle; perhaps this would be a good place to start in tracking him down. They could not of course pass his personal details onto you but I am sure they would be happy to forward a message. |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
If that email made you feel better, then it did its job. I believe you sounded very apologizing during the whole email. I don't believe this should have been the tone to use. As I read it, you were only asking for communication to discuss the situation. I see no reason why someone who knows he is copying another person's idea would ever bother to discuss anything pertaining to using your idea and character.
Furthermore, you should have found him and sent a physical letter with letterhead, and best to have an attorney do it, so they see you are serious about this matter. You will not know if the email was ever even opened and read unless you used Outlook that has a send back notice that it was read. You may even been able to use a military attorney to save some cost. It use to be $100 for an attorney letter, don't know what the going rate is today. David is correct, IBM and The Magic Circle will forward letters to members. I use to work with attorneys, and this is from my experience. |
w_s_anderson Inner circle The United States 1226 Posts |
LOL......thanks Bill. I suppose I was going for the "catch more flies with honey" approach. It obviously didn't work, or like you said, it may not even have been read.
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
You also need to ask, what you would like to see happen. Otherwise all they know is, you are unhappy.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
RoyHarper New user 26 Posts |
It's a good start, follow ups can get stronger.
Roy |
Lou Hilario Inner circle 2235 Posts |
That reminds me of a guy who copied the Sylvester the Jester act. After Dan's several letters to him, he stopped performing that act and even made a video of him destroying the copied props. I guess the pen is mightier than the sword.
Just write him directly and tell him.
Magic, Illusions, Juggling, Puppet & Parrot Show ^0^
http://www.louhilario.net |
Rook Special user I went to the Magic Cafe and all I got were these lousy 834 Posts |
At the very least, you now have documentation asking him politely and gently. With future, more directive letters (possibly eventually coming from a lawyer), you can allude to these previous attempts.
Those who don't believe in magic will never find it.
-Roald Dahl |
Bill Hallahan Inner circle New Hampshire 3222 Posts |
Bill Hegbli wrote:
Quote:
If that email made you feel better, then it did its job. I believe you sounded very apologizing during the whole email. I don't believe this should have been the tone to use. As I read it, you were only asking for communication to discuss the situation. I see no reason why someone who knows he is copying another person's idea would ever bother to discuss anything pertaining to using your idea and character. We don't know for sure he is copying the idea. Using the word "operation" before a noun is common in the military, and it certainly could be a coincidence. And that exact name has been used before this too. "Operation Magic" was the was the name given to efforts to break Japanese military and diplomatic codes during World War II by the U.S. intelligence services. Even with another non-identical similarity, this could just be coincidence. In a large world with lots of magicians all seeking to create presentations, coincidences, even amazing ones, are not only likely, but it would be surprising if they didn't happen. By the way, one of the best paper written about coincidences is titled, "Methods for Studying Coincidences", and is by Persi Diaconis and Frederick Mosteller. The abstract for that article contains this sentence: Quote:
Once we set aside coincidences having apparent causes, four principles account for large numbers of remaining coincidences: hidden cause; psychology, including memory and perception; multiplicity of endpoints, including the counting of "close" or nearly alike events as if they were identical; and the law of truly large numbers, which says that when enormous numbers of events and people and their interactions cumulate over time, almost any outrageous event is bound to occur. These sources account for much of the force of synchronicity. The last two items, counting close ideas as identical and the law of large numbers might apply here - or not. I don't know. By the way, it's a coincidence that the first author of that paper is also a magician. Of course, he might be copying W. S. Anderson's ideas too. Either way, if W. S. Anderson has been using this way before he did, I think the ethical thing to do would be for this other magician to rename his act and perhaps change his logo too.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch" |
natmagic Veteran user USA 301 Posts |
Has he responded to your email?
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Bairefoot Inner circle 1097 Posts |
Sorry Anderson. You are a great guy!
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