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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Or, the things people don't agree on...
cards or no cards magic background or no magic background readings or no readings propless or paper psychic or psychological claimers or disclaimers define your powers or leaving it vague stage, walkaround, close-up and many more besides... even those with a decent knowledge of the roots, the forking/branching of exposure, no one agrees... even amongst professionals - ask the same questions and you'll get different answers... which is also a sign of madness... being told to search out the old books for the 'gold' but then having to wade through silk, rope, and card magic - then get shouted at that it should be kept and seen as separate when you ask questions...its all kinda funny... especially when you get told "yes, but it was different back then...". So you read further, and actually you find out that there were pretty much always walkaround mentalists, those who had "a bit of business in the pocket when called upon during a ship cruise or on the top deck of a bus" - to some of the most entertaining and wildly synchronistic displays involving a simple thing from card magic (stolen by magicians from cardsharps and cardsharks), but dressed differently, performed LIVE weekly on the BBC... or a world renown mentalist handing out pears trapped in jars that couldn't possibly fit...to a fake doctor that would wire up an entire theatre with wires and microphones many, many years before any forum existed to tell us that electronics shouldn't be relied up... nor should a guitar pass on spiritual messages when strummed in a one-on-one situation in your psychic office...but it did... mix in that shonky business practices, outright lies, back stabbing and BSing one another nearly constantly - I find it surprising that mentalism made it out of the gutter at all... exposure after exposure (i'm not talking about magicians doing the exposure shows of fake spiritualist methods then realising they could do pretty much the same act for entertainment and make more money) - on tv, youtube, and file upoads and swopsies... despite all those things, mentalism is still the messed up monster it always has been... and I think that, in part at least, its because it deals with us - the human beings that morosely wander the earth asking for pocket money priced magic and mentalism, as well the other lot, those obsessed with selfies and guns and money and ego... somewhere inbetween those two things exists a wild variety of humans that have, decade after decade, fragmented - created niche markets, devolved in some thinking and evolved in others...just like music changed and fragmented rapidly from major genres in deeper sub genres and cross-overs... maybe its just the nature of the beast (us, the beasts and our mindset)... Come gather 'round people Wherever you roam And admit that the waters Around you have grown And accept it that soon You'll be drenched to the bone. If your time to you Is worth savin' Then you better start swimmin' Or you'll sink like a stone maybe, just like everything else around us - its ok to decide that what you want to talk about, deal with, use as a vehicle for your style of mentalism (because that HAS happened, for better and for worse) CAN be current and modern and scientific and psychological...and those that don't, can be happy about that because by their terms and definitions, those that DO are "just doing magic anyway and it'll be seen as a trick"...so it won't be seen as bad mentalism, it'll be seen as magic (for good or bad)... art forms grow, mutate, live, die, revive, all things in between - some people only want to look at a Monet, a Klimt, a Pollock, a Dali...ask each what art is, and you'll get a different answer... ask all of them and they might all dislike modern art...yet at one point in time, they were all modernists in their own personal way if you think about it...
I've asked to be banned
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Raum Loyal user 227 Posts |
One of the most important skill for mentalist - not pay strict attention to other mentalists.
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chmara Inner circle Tucson, AZ 1911 Posts |
Forsooth - Raum has pronounced the wisdom of the ages. After principles, all is artistry.
Gregg (C. H. Mara) Chmara
Commercial Operations, LLC Tucson, AZ C. H. Mara Illusion & Psychic Entertainments |
Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
An artist friend of mine once defined art as "whatever you can get away with."
I think the same thing applies to "mentalism."
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
Craig Logan Special user Michigan 541 Posts |
Art is beautiful and messy and full of passion and controversial and engaging. That means when these passionate people interact, people take offense and tempers can flare. I think these debates can happen in a civil manner, but it will only stem from a mutual respect for one another as well as respect for the art.
The idea that "they were all modernists in their own personal way," is great because it introduces a bit of common ground to a potential volatile interaction.
"A wizard is not to be made in a day." -Professor Hoffmann (Modern Magic)
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
Some art is mainly for the consumption of other artists (or those specially trained in understanding it). It's too 'advanced' for normal people.
And while I suppose there are some magicians and mentalists that are known for being able to perform for other magicians and mentalists.... FFS! Mentalism is meant to be and is best performed for people who have no idea what they are seeing! If someone needs training to be able to understand what you are doing, you are doing it wrong. Conversely, if another mentalist thinks you are doing something wrong, that may have nothing to do with what your actual audiences think.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 27, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: I think that is so true. So many of the effects that are delightful to us fall flat with real audiences -and vice versa. Quote:
On Oct 27, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: I don't understand what you mean by this? Mentalists would surely benefit from more proper training in all the theatrical arts? |
mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Nothing really to do with mentalism really. Whenever you have a group of people in any context you will get disagreement. Its just part of being human. Reality for a large part is subjective. So everybody is right according to their own mind. Being true to yourself is important though.
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12945 Posts |
No human believes what every other human believes. We all disagree on something. It doesn't however mean that what others disagree with us on are right, or wrong. It just means, they are losers!!
No seriously, we are all different. (what a cliched comment) This is how and why we can learn from others. Which is a wonderful thing. J |
thatmichaelguy New user 67 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 27, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote: This is something I confront a lot. Because we focus so often on method, it's easy to think "Oh, it's just a simple (insert method here)" when something is, for lack of a better word, simply done. But those things can be so entertaining and mystifying to an audience even when they seem commonplace to us. |
One Inch Man New user 74 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 27, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote: Far be it from me to speak on his behalf, but I took it to mean the audience needing training. That is to say performing something for someone when they can only really appreciate it if they understand the methodology behind it. Material that pleases other mentalists rather than real audiences essentially. |
Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
Yeah that's exactly what I meant, thanks.
Oh, and yes also mentalists should definitely benefit from more theatrical training.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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