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EvilClown New user Richmond, VA 74 Posts |
After lurking for a few months, I need to dip my toe in the water with my first post on the Café and seek your collective advice.
I was interested in magic when I was younger but set it aside as life got in the way. Now as I approach 49, I have spent the last few months reacquainting myself with the art and realizing I didn't remember much. It has been like starting from scratch. I am making slow progress re-learning what I once knew (glad I kept all my notes, books and props), but one question has really vexed me and I have not located a solution--perhaps because there isn't one. I have found some very strong self-working card effects that I enjoy and that I believe might work together to be a nice routine. The problem is a couple of them require setting up the decks in ways that are rather different from one another. Changing decks from effect to effect would scream the deck is pre-set and, even if that weren't the case, would be rather cumbersome. Perhaps I lack confidence, but I don't think I am at the point in my re-learning to start learning a cull (something I never got to the first time I became interested in magic). What other options, if any, do I have for setting up a deck for another trick with the audience present? Thanks for your thoughts on this and for this great forum. I have learned a ton on here and found so many of my questions answered just by searching these past few months. |
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Great question and topic. Welcome
If you want to be able to do card arrangements on the fly, here's some thoughts to get you going: A) You might set up your stack as part of an open preparation for the upcoming trick (finding the 'right' card or whatever). Great examples of this are Harry Lorayne's Great Divide (on his Best Ever DVD vol 1), and pre-Prefiguration (on BBM ultimate self working card tricks vol 1). B) You might form an arrangement in the process of of doing another trick. Good examples of this ruse are John Bannon's Ulterior (on his Move Zero DVD vol 1) and Nikola's Subtle Game (can be found at the end of Encyclopedia of Card Tricks). C) Or you might find that at the end of one trick you are 'left' with certain cards on the table, or wherever, that can form a set up or part set up for another trick (if you do a four ace trick, what do you do with those aces afterwards, for example). D) Or you might have more than one deck of cards on you, where one has a different arrangement to the other, and you could find a way to secretly exchange the one deck you've been using for the other; known as a deck sw*tch. Roberto Giobbi has a whole book on this subject. E) Or you might think of ways to bring that new deck into play openly. A good example of how this can be done is found of Darwin Ortiz's At the Table lecture DVD. F) Perhaps you might think in terms of what arrangement might give you the most tricks before it has to be destroyed, in which case you might think in terms of whole deck arrangements and memory deck work - see the shuffled not stirred sub forum here for more on that subject. G) Or maybe just pick the strongest complex set up trick you know, arrange your deck in that form, then concentrate on doing more impromptu from a shuffled deck tricks afterwards. You can of course choose a different stack next time - rotating the opening effect, if you will. H) Or bite the bullet and learn to cull cards - maybe checking out Kosta Kimlats work, or the BBM DVD the Cullfather. Regardless of what you choose to think about and research, I'd also advise that you learn some good self-working tricks that can be done impromptu (Big Blind Media has multiple DVDs on this subject, and there's a range of books on the subject, including those by Fulves, or the Lighter series by Giobbi). See also Scarne. And also learn some basic slight of hand work - false shuffles/cuts and controls. For those I recommend Lorayne's Magic Book; Gerry Griffin's Complete Card magic course DVD set; Mark Wilson's Complete Magic Course; The Royal Road to Card Magic; and BBM Essential Card Magic boxset. Maybe even Card College vol 1-2 as well. Good luck! |
EvilClown New user Richmond, VA 74 Posts |
Terrible Wizard:
Thank you for the welcome and the response. I am definitely working on sleights.They come slowly to me, but I finally am becoming almost reliable with my charlier cut (OK, its a flourish, not a sleight, but still). Just found a couple of these self-workers that I liked and wanted to find a way to use them together. I actually own about 75% of the resources you mentioned. I actually developed an oddly extensive library back in the day. I will acquire the rest ASAP as they seem like solid recommendations--BBM in particular, has always sent me things I find appealing and useful. I heard the Kimlat cull was very advanced and difficult but that it was better than the Cullfather. I was of the impression that culling was something I needed to work up to as my skills developed. Same for a deck sw*tch or memory deck work like Mnemonica. But this is incredibly helpful. I appreciate the detailed response! |
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
You're welcome!
Culling more than just a card or two is beyond my skill level too. But it's amazing what you can do with just one or two, lol. But getting another deck into play - that's actually easy, technically anyway. Far more about creative sneakiness than about techniques or moves. Just think about different ways to do such a thing. Making arrangements while doing other tricks is also not that hard, just ... Sneaky. I'll let you have fun with it! |
danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts |
I've used multiple stacked decks. To get from one deck to the other I'll do a packet trick in between, like a 3-card monte. Before I start the packet trick, I clean off the table and put the used deck in my jacket pocket. Then I'll do the Monte or whatever, usually with cards from the first deck. When I'm done with that, I pick up those cards, reach into my pocket and pull out a second deck I have stashed in there, and casually put the packet cards on the bottom (or top) of the new deck as if I'm just returning them to the deck they came from. A false shuffle or cut completes the change and maintains the stack. No one ever notices. All you need to do is be careful you keep your decks in order.
Or do a coin trick after a card trick. Then say, "Let's do another card trick!" and reach into your pocket, pulling out the second (or third) deck. I've even seen magicians stash a used deck in their left pocket, and after some time misdirection, pull a new deck out of their right pocket and pretend it's the same deck, and no one in the audience notices, because their attention is directed elsewhere. There are lots of ways to do this.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts |
Good idea about the packet trick Dana
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byronblaq1 New user 32 Posts |
Up until a few weeks ago I hadn't bothered to learn a cut because I'd struggled with all of them that I'd found. A friend recommended Kostya's Roadrunner Cull and so I hesitantly bought it and within a few days I had a very impressive cull.
Now I can cull like no tomorrow and regret not trying to find an option sooner. If on the other hand you want some methods for switching decks, you'll be surprised how easy just switching them is. Put it in your pocket and pull out the other and say "oh, I should have shown you this as well" etc. Usually I just box it and change it out in conversation and act like it never happened. I've never been called out for switching decks. B. |
Doc Willie Regular user 160 Posts |
Easy to switch decks by doing a non-card trick in between, though, yes, it will impact the drama of multiple card tricks in sequence.
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EvilClown New user Richmond, VA 74 Posts |
Dana:
Great thought on the packet trick as a bridge between two decks. I assume since you are burying the packet cards in the second stacked deck, you either need to be careful not to spread the deck face up to avoid duplicates or you are already removing the duplicates when you are doing your pre-show set-up and the packet cards fill out the second deck. It also makes perfect sense to alternate between cards and another prop so the audience doesn't focus on whether or not it is the same deck--I had certainly thought of that, but was trying to see if I could avoid needing the second deck in the first place. I may have to live with two decks. Great ideas and much appreciated! |
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