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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
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On Aug 20, 2018, Corin Webster wrote: Interesting do you have any actual statistics to back that statement up or is this just your opinion ? |
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rabbitok New user Sydney, Australia 52 Posts |
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On Aug 20, 2018, Neznarf wrote: I used to do this, though I'd do an effect, turn to the deck " Not yet My Pretties", and then do something different, after two or three non-card effects , invariable someone would say "Aren't you going to let the Cards have a Go?" |
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lynnef Inner circle 1407 Posts |
Nerdini beat me to the punch with the reference to Joshua Jay's article. The bottom line was that people LIKE card tricks (and this is not just opinion), but had trouble remembering them. So the challenge is to make them "memorable". Yes, Oil and Water can be boring... but then there's a trick called "The Sting" (I learned from Mr Lorayne tape) which has a totally unexpected and memorable ending to this basic effect. There are many signed card effects out there... but then there's Shin Lim's signed card to a tattoo on his chest (haven't learned that one lol). But in the end, people DO like card tricks, especially good ones! Lynn
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jaschris Loyal user 223 Posts |
I find people really like card tricks. The only folks I ever hear disparage card tricks are magicians that don't do cards.
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts |
IMHO, people tire of the plot, "Pick a card. Now I'll lose your card in the deck. Now I've found your card. Ta da!" This is especially true if you're doing multiple card tricks with that plot. If you do Chicago Opener, followed by Matrix, followed by Ambitious Card, followed by Card to Pocket, you're essentially doing different variations of the same effect, and that can get boring. "Pick a card, any card," is such a tired cliche that it's an invitation to your audience to mentally check out.
On the other hand, I've never seen anyone complain that Bebel was boring. I've seen him bring people to tears with "card tricks." I've seen his audiences scream. I've watched their jaws drop. I've never seen anyone bored. I've never seen anyone want him to stop. And all he does is sit there and play with a deck of cards, barely speaking in broken English. I've seen audiences completely enthralled with Ben Earl doing 20 minutes of "find the Aces," and never lose interest. But no one else is Bebel, and no one else is Ben Earl. So for the rest of us, maybe we should change things up now and then. On the separate subject of memorability, I think Josh is right that using another prop in a card trick makes it more memorable. I have a card to impossible location called Code Red that people never forget and can accurately describe months later because it uses an unusual prop. People remember me and identify me with the trick. I could do the same trick and produce the found card from my pocket, and no one would remember it a week later. So props do make a difference in terms of the audience recalling the plot.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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will lane Veteran user Will likes to post so he has made 339 Posts |
Quote: I'm curious what the actual source for that statistic is. Although I do think some people prefer non-card tricks, saying that all people prefer non-card tricks compared to card tricks needs some back up.
On Aug 20, 2018, Vogler wrote: My girlfriend and I got some coffee the other day with her younger sister who is 9. I started a few tricks with a silk production, which she really enjoyed and asked for again and again. I tried showing her some other tricks with cards, but she didn't seem to be very interested. The environment was kind of sterile and the card tricks couldn't hold her attention for very long (even though they were NOT long tricks at all). However, I changed up my tactic from having the magic happen in my hands to involving her. I did a simple "red 9" and King places switch, with one of the cards placed in her hand, and that one hit. I think people are likely tired of the "pick a card, any card" bit, especially considering the lack of emotional connection mentioned earlier. But people are not tired of seeing magic that will knock their socks off, no matter what it uses. |
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jason ladanye Loyal user 254 Posts |
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On Sep 8, 2018, jaschris wrote: I feel the same way! |
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts |
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On Sep 12, 2018, will lane wrote: I think he was referring to the study done by Joshua Jay, which was reported in the final issue of Magic Magazine. People misconstrue that all the time. It didn't say that people don't like card tricks. It said that of all the magic done, card tricks are the least memorable. In other words, they cannot recall them later. The "cure" for this, they found, is to use another prop in the card trick, and that makes it more memorable. People don't like bad card tricks done by bad magicians. And OMG are there a lot of those...
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
From one of the front pages of my upcoming book, AND FINALLY!
Do you like card tricks? No, I hate card tricks. Oh, so I'll do only one. Wow! I never saw one like that! Can you do another? Please?
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1402 Posts |
I agree with danaruns,it depends on who is doing the card magic.
I used to hate card magic and found "card guys" incredibly boring, doing the same trick over and over and over - pick a card, pick a card. At a magic convention I went to, three magicians did their stage set, all of them did ONLY card magic, ALL performed various pick a card ONLY. It was the ONLY time I wanted to leave a magic show. Then I saw the movie "Shade", totally changed my position on card magic. Gambling/cheating routines gave cards a true purpose. And broke the tedious repetition of cards. I love card magic now, but, it depends on WHO is doing the card magic. There so much material that does not require the spectator to "pick a card", and yet I still see most "cards guys" use this type of presentation. BTW - If rope magic was just cut and restore, if coin magic was just variation of the french drop, and any magic discipline with only one topic, I would feel the same. |
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Shane Cobalt New user 91 Posts |
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On Aug 20, 2018, Vogler wrote: Funny you mention this. Just the other week at the TAOM convention a gentleman approached me telling me how much he disliked card tricks but really enjoyed watching me perform them. This same thing happened at Blackpool in February with the owner of a rather famous UK magic shop. Perhaps it's not the tricks... |
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Vogler Special user Greece 707 Posts |
Of course its not the tricks. Everyone keeps saying how we all love card tricks. I enjoy them as well, but my post has to point something else. If we need more and more effects and hundreds of variations on each one. Perhaps our creativity has to disvover new ways to capture the audience. If you have a repertoire of ten really good card routines , and you really KNOW how to perform them, why to read thousands of variations or card discoveries? Of course for our joy because we all are magic lovers and we love to learn new things and triggering our creativity, but don't tell me that the audience really prefer card tricks to visual magic, Of course we have the responsibility to teach them with our polished performances that when an effect challenges us intellectually (like many card tricks) it is more interesting and it stays in mind forever... When I was a teenager I saw an old magician performing out of this world and I never forgot...
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will lane Veteran user Will likes to post so he has made 339 Posts |
I think people like magic that hits hard, and they don't like magic that stinks. It is that simple. The "Uncle Jeff and his card tricks" idea is just that- card tricks but not magic. They are neat tricks but not really impressive- they just seem like tricks. Cards are just typically the most associated with "tricks" as others have said.
Just perform good magic, and it will not matter what you use. |
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Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts |
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On Sep 15, 2018, will lane wrote: Funny, My grown nieces ask my wife every holiday to "Make sure Uncle Jeff (ME) brings his cards coins and rubber bands." They even invite other friends and extended family. After the magic is done, we usually play some Texas Hold'Em but they never seem to let me deal or touch the deck once the money is in the pot.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased). |
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countrymaven Inner circle 1426 Posts |
I had avoided card tricks, mostly, until recently. I got the idea of learning cards to do things that seemed like real mindreading.
Some spectators got scared today in a good way when performing. Either I am ugly or my magic was good. or both. I think too often card guys cannot tell if moves look fishy--many of them do. You have to go through enough tricks to write home about to get smooth clean methods with cards. Also, spectators do not like complicated plots or things that seem set up. If done very cleanly, mindreading with cards kills. This is based on my experience, not on famous essays that I didn't write. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
I join this discussion with some diffidence, as an inexperienced magician who does mostly cards. Two thoughts:
1. To Vogler's point, do we need to create new card tricks (or, as Harry said, *any* magic) given the many thousands of tricks that have already been created? J. R. R. Tolkien addresses this issue, in another context, in his famous essay, "On Fairy Stories." He asks, given all the wonderful fantasy stories of the past, why do we need new ones? His answer is that each time needs its own stories that address the spirit of the time in which they're created. (Tolkien fought in the trenches in WWI, and The Lord of the Rings clearly shows the influence of that, though marvelously transmuted by his amazing imagination and interest in medieval literature.) )I'd add that if we believe that no more new tricks, novels, paintings are needed because so many have already been created, then we deny ourselves the natural and rewarding human impulse to create. Why should we have any less right to create than our ancestors did? It reminds me of some poets who say (foolishly, in my opinion) that we can no longer write about the moon, except ironically, because the moon-image has already been overused over the centuries. To which I say, however much we may admire our ancestors' poems about the moon, it's *our* moon now. We get to do what we like with it -- and it will inevitably be a different moon from that of the past because we have a different attitude toward the moon from our ancestors' view of it. I'm quite certain that all of that applies to magic, though I wouldn't be able to supply details! 2. Perhaps because I love poetry (and have had the good fortune to publish in decent magazines), it comes naturally to me to make up stories to go with card tricks. Of course, I'm not the first to do such a thing. But, as someone said earlier in this thread, we have to find a way to make our magic meaningful to our audiences, and stories seem a natural way to do that. We can personify the cards, or make them actors in a short play in which they play roles such as an evil wizard. And of course lots of people still play cards, so gambling tricks come with an inherent meaning for those people (not me -- I'm not a card player). For what it's worth.... Bob |
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