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lynnef Inner circle 1407 Posts |
Thanx Pop, when I first saw the topic, I thought of how you sometimes do this tipping the force. I think the point was to kind of show it only once, and then convince that there was no force in the follow up. Not the same as saying "I will always be able to force, no matter what you choose." Lynn
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Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2986 Posts |
If the "forcer" can pull off the "He couldn't have forced me.." then all is forgiven. I think it's difficult to do it. But I'm intrigued with the possibility. However, I don't think I have ever seen the "multiple forcer" even try to do this. Do doubt they create fun, which is likely the only goal. But they seem to end up creating or reinforcing the idea that the magician can make you take the card they want you to take, which, IMO hurts the cause.
Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
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Pop Haydn Inner circle Los Angeles 3691 Posts |
Think of doing the repeat force and then Brainwave. "Don't let me influence you, just think of a card and name it..." It would strengthen Brainwave, I suspect.
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Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2986 Posts |
Cool idea Pop. I think the idea of doing something utterly unexplainable (Brainwave) right after something that may be leading them to a valid theory is an excellent ploy. I think the thinking would be unconscious but would reinforce the notion that, just maybe, they actually did take the same card over and over for completely unexplainable reasons.
I'll bet there are other perfect places to inject BW too.... It certainly is a great way out of a problematic situation i.e. a trick that fails. I always have BW in my pocket for that eventuality. Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Somewhat tangential to this conversation, but still relevant, I hope, at least as an example:: I was lucky enough to obtain a deck of whimsical, foot-shaped cards, in which the pips, etc., are all distorted to match the curves of the foot. I'd like to use such a card in the Biddle Trick, with a faux Sherlock Holmes story. The idea would be to hide the foot card on the table somewhere, force the corresponding card in a "real" deck, and later have Holmes & Watson discover a "footprint" -- namely, the foot-shaped card. At this point they would know who committed the crime, because they recognize the footprint as belong to, say, the six of spades. I thought that would make a nice moment of amusement and surprise.
But this thread is making me feel afraid to use a force: surely the spectators, on seeing the "footprint," will realize that I forced the card. Does it matter? Giobbi in his handling of the trick (under the title "The Invisible Card") forces a card, so I guess the Force isn't dead! But still... I'm at a loss to see how to convince spectators that I didn't force a card. If anyone has suggestions, I'd be grateful. I know that I'm in deep waters here, being not too far beyond the beginner level, but perhaps some of you would be willing to share your insights on this. Many thanks, Bob |
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Cain Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 1553 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 9, 2018, Pop Haydn wrote: But all of the forcing is still unnecessary given your later example... Quote:
On Oct 10, 2018, Pop Haydn wrote: Without the prologue of force tricks, the spectator is still armed with knowledge that he was not forced to take a particular card: "No, bro: He had me NAME a card. I'm tellin' u, my choice was free AF!" (However, the fairness of even this procedure can be undermined if the spectator were to name an "obvious" card like the Ace of Spades.) With a named card, audience members could speculate that you had a confederate, so one solution is to empanel a committee of audience members -- one selects the color, another chooses the suit, and so on. If you're forcing a card to show that you're not later forcing a card, then I think you run the risk of engaging in pointless exposition. If I have a person sign a card from the outset, then they know it's a unique object. I don't have to burn/teach them this lesson by first using duplicate cards.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!" |
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lynnef Inner circle 1407 Posts |
Can't we also "play" with or suggest a force; and then do a force? I'm thinking of the move where, from the back of a fan, one dangles a card very prominently out there which can be named (popular move by Derek Dingle.... the "Dingle dangle"?..sorry!). Perhaps taking the heat off a real force, or any other sleight. Lynn
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Emory Kimbrough New user Tuscaloosa, AL 94 Posts |
Bob G - Here's a way to solve your problem, and create an even stronger effect in the process. Rather than hiding the card on the table, load the card on the table. Think card-under-glass, or similar. The card impossibly shows up where a few moments ago no card was present. This adds an entertaining creepiness factor, as the criminal must have just passed within inches of the spectator. Better idea: introduce the criminal as someone who slips drugs or poisons into his victims' drinks, making it both logical and spine-tingling for the evidence to appear right under the spectator's drink.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi Emory,
Thanks so much for taking the time to reply. I really like your idea of the card showing up in a place that was previously empty, implying that the criminal passed within inches of the spectator! The drink business is pretty cool, too. Not wanting to overstay my welcome, but -- do you have any suggestions for how to load the card? Or perhaps sources that would provide a good model of doing that? The only way I can think of offhand is to use a palm, and I admit to being a scared of palming, though I've been working on it a bit. A number of the tricks I want to learn eventually use the Gambler's Cop, so I thought I might start with that. Still, I'd prefer a method that didn't use the palm. I've seen card under glass routines somewhere, so I'll look for those. Bob |
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Emory Kimbrough New user Tuscaloosa, AL 94 Posts |
Doc Eason is one expert to watch for card under glass. You'll learn even more from watching and re-watching a video of him doing it in a real-world performance than you will reading a description or watching a video tutorial. Mike Close is also known for card under glass / deck under glass / card on forehead, including a routine in one of his Workers books.
You'll definitely want to become comfortable and relaxed with palms before adding the additional pressure of a load. The technique itself - using the limited definition of technique to mean mechanics - isn't difficult at all. Developing the necessary unhurried confident nonchalance is harder than the mechanics if you haven't yet spent a lot of time performing and palming in front of an audience. Number-one practice tip: Stand behind a table with a glass straight in front of your right hip. With that location, you'll know where the glass is without having to look. Now look at yourself in the mirror as your hand reaches for the glass. BAM! - Your eyes immediately lock onto your moving hand. Not good. Now instead of reaching for the glass, keep your hand relaxed and motionless as you rock your weight forward, leaning your entire body towards the table. You no longer notice your hand moving closer to the glass because your hand is now just automatically traveling along with your body instead of moving independently of a stationary body. Come up with a good reason to hand the deck to a spectator over on the far side of the table with your left hand, and the leaning motion needed to do that does exactly what's described above, and makes it natural to rest your right hand on the table to steady yourself as you lean. Mission accomplished under strong misdirection. Until you feel ready to try this, you could instead have the card appear in a Him*** wallet previously shown empty. Perhaps the criminal accidentally dropped his wallet at the scene of the crime. The police check the wallet, but, darn it, there was no ID in the wallet that would link it to the criminal. But then the police later discover he left a footprint too. That's not *quite* as strong as card-under-glass, but still definitely a solid piece of magic. Also one you could perform anywhere, anytime, not just in situations with a table, glasses, and seated spectators. Also check out "Shoet" by Mark Southworth, sold by Mark Mason's JB Magic. It's a signed card to shoe, and your foot-shaped cards would be PERFECT for that. You can put an Avery removable label on a freely selected card for the spectator to initial instead of signing the card itself, thus not ruining a card from your unusual hard-to-replace deck. Also, Shoet has strong built-in misdirection, and would thus be an excellent choice for your first palm-a-card trick. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Many thanks, Emory. I thought I'd replied, but maybe I forgot to click "send." Anyway: you clearly have a great imagination for story-telling, and you've given me a lovely mini-lesson in misdirection in palming. In fact, you've given me a whole new project -- to learn palming and try it out in different situations, including the design of my Holmesian trick. So thanks again for writing at such length and with such good ideas.
Bob |
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MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3504 Posts |
Bob G, Don't forget the phrase "The game's afoot!"
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Ha ha! Thanks, Mike! That's really funny -- I'll definitely use it.
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