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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
It is much appreciated if I could have answers from professional magicians.
Question : Do you use tricks using Memorised Stack as a steady repertoire in performances for lay audience? If you do, what effects do you perform? As I know many amateur magicians are using Memorised Stack, please allow me to restrict this question to professionals. Thanks for your answers in advance. Hideo Kato P.S. Of course I welcome everybosy's comment if he/she has witnessed some professionals used Memorised Stack in performance for lay audience. |
ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2499 Posts |
I perform as a mentalist, and as such, greatly minimize the use of playing cards in my professional repertoire. Of the three playing card effects I perform with any regularity, one of them uses a memorized deck.
... Doug
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
I use one for "Zen Master" by Darwin Ortiz w/ modified last 2 revelations, usually only for an encore piece.
Other than that, sometimes I jazz with a memorized deck for some random locations/effects, but usually not as a routined piece because of the setup. It's a great tool, that I probably don't take advatage of enough, but honestly deck switching / the setup is just a little bit long, especially when you can wow them just as much with a regular un-prepared deck. |
lowphat Loyal user Michigan 240 Posts |
I would recommend Richard Osterlind's mind mysteries DVD. His breatkthough numbering system alone for the deck is worth the price of all three dvd's. You don't actually have to memorize the deck, and it's completely undetectable.
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
Hideo Kato,
I'm a part-time professional magician. I have a regular magic engagement at a local dinner theatre. (I do 50 shows a year for them.) I also do quite a few shows regionally. I don't do kid's shows. (If I don't fit your profile, please feel free to skip the rest of the post.) When I'm doing walk-around, I have card effects that use the memorized deck for a few effects. I also perform effects that don't require the stack. The memorized deck effects include: Thought Card to Wallet A card divination effect that is similar to Ron Wilson's Whispering Queen effect A nice Prediction Shuffle Bored variation Any Card at Any Number Prediction (Juan Tamariz effect from Mnemonica) Don't worry; I never use all of these effects during one evening. I'm working on a gambling demonstration that will be based on some of the ideas in Juan Tamariz's Any Poker Hand Called For.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
Sorry to divert for a second, but is Juan Tamariz's effect really any hand called for(specific cards) or just any out of the 9 different possible ones?
ie is it a stack similer to Shark Attack(darwin ortiz) or is it a 5-card cull/stack from memorized deck? |
Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
Thank you very much for your kind answers. I think I should have written the reason why I asked the question.
I believe I have studied and practiced (and mastered at considerable level) most fields of card magic other than Memorized stack. I read Aronson's work and Joyal's work, but I have never mastered using of Memorized Stack. (It would be fanny that I have created many tricks which need Memorized Stack). We are now writing 3rd grade textbook for Japan Cardicians School (JCS), and 4th grade will be the last one. (One textbook has 200 pages each). "We" means Hideo Kato and Mr. dMaric. Our textbooks are to teach students necessary sleights , tricks and knowlege to make them good performers of professional level. Our policy is to teach only indispensable tools for performers because our purpose of JCS is to educate students who want to be a good artist, not a hobbyist nor a collector. I am wondering if I should include Memorized Stack in 4th grade textbook. If the Stack is not being used by real world professionals as an indispensable tool, I will not include it. Otherwise, I must start to master it before I write it. So, I would like to hear professionals' experiences and opinions on Memorized Stack. Thank you very much for your help again. Hideo Kato |
Basil Regular user Green Bay, WI 129 Posts |
Michael Close is a good example of a professional that gets great mileage out of a memorized deck. A number of his effects on the "Workers" series use a memorized deck.
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apv New user 14 Posts |
I have been working with the stack for the last four years (I do roughly 4 gigs / week) and must say that I use the stack every night.
Some of the effects that can be accomplished with the stack just can not be matched. I just finished viewing Osterlind's DVD's and there is some incredible stack work, although I prefer Aronson or Tamariz stack over the breakthrough system. Some of the tricks I do on a regular basis are: Mneumonicosis Invisible Deck (great for magicians, as you show a "normal" deck at the end) Rising Card (with a thought of card) Jazzin And about 5 other tricks I have been playing with. If I am in a position where I have to do something quick for a CEO or VIP, I always reach for the stack. |
Kjellstrom Inner circle Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe 5203 Posts |
If you are a mentalist, try to combine a memo stack together with Sean Taylors new ESP deck:
http://www.symbology-deck.com/ I have it and it works very well... |
BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
Consider these magicians:
Ed Marlo Bert Allerton Mike Skinner Simon Aronson Martin Joyal Michael Close Juan Tamariz Barrie Richardson Eric Mead Bob Kohler (And I'm sure that other folks on this board can add a large number of names of other magical artists.) One thing that all of them share in common: they all do (or did) reputation-making effects with the memorized deck. With respect to Bert Allerton's stabbing effect, Robert Parrish wrote, "Most magicians, once they know what is going on, have a tendency to dismiss this sort of thing. Unless there is a move or a gimmick, it hardly seems worthy of their consideration. But to the poor layman, who doesn't know the deck is arranged in the first place- and who couldn't see what good it would do it it were - this stabbing masterpiece came dangerously close to pure witchcraft." Dr. Zola once said to Bert Allerton, "You can take a stacked deck and follow any great artist with cards, and your spectators will think you are the better magician." Don't underestimate the power of this subtle tool just because you might not currently use it!
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
I am sure that I am going to explain System Stack like Si Stebbins in our textbook.
I think most of the tricks you mentioned can be done with Si Stebbins. I have a very good (quick) calculation system with Si Stebbins. If I know the bootm card, I can calculate the position of a cetatin card, or the card at a certain position. Thus I am still wondering if I should write about Memorized Stack. Thanks for the advice. Hideo Kato |
Ethan500 New user 26 Posts |
Kato-san,
You should get the new Darwin Ortiz's DVD sets, Scam and Fantasies,he has quite a few memorized stack routines. Ethan500 |
Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
I have read Darwin Ortiz's 'Scam and Fantasies'. I am not convinced that Memorized Stack is indispensable sleight to teach to my students even after reading the book.
But thanks for recommendation. Hideo Kato |
Mark Butcher Regular user Rochester, NY 116 Posts |
Hideo,
I love memorized deck work and use it in my shows however it may be a little overwhelming for young students. Instead of trying to teach them memorized deck work, just make them aware that it exists, list the pros/cons of using it, a give some sources for more information. Mark |
Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
Thanks Mark for the most suitable answer for my need. I will do so for Pass too. I will do so for Perfect Riffle Shuffle too.
However, I decided that I would practice the sleight. I decided so as soon as I received Mr. Barry Fernelius's PM which encouraged me to use the sleight. Thank you everybody for kind advice. Hideo kato |
doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
Mr. Kato: Your hesitancy in wanting to teach memorized deck work is interesting. Since you are wanting to create "artists" I can't fathom why this direction of card work would not fascinate you in an artistic manner (as opposed to say, manipulative work, which to me is more akin to juggling). I'll paraphrase Mr. Tamariz from his book, "if a normal deck of cards can be used to do unbelievable effects, then a deck tuned in Mneumonica (into a memorized deck) becomes like a fine tuned instrument to work miracles."
As you can see, we can talk the talk until we are blue in the face and you are still not convinced that m-deck work is worthy of teaching. I believe it is the true student of magic who will find it on his own that memorized deck effects are worthy of learning (and using). For example, I love the Card College books by Giobbi, but they don't have any m-deck effects in them. Perhaps your guiding hand to m-deck work is not necessary for your books to be a useful tool to a student of magic. I suspect the student will find it on his own. Good luck in your writing venture. Doug Brewer San Diego, CA |
Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
The term "indispensable" is subjective. As an extreme example, I believe that most close-up magicians would state that a good double lift is an indespnsible sleight, but there are tons of great close-up effects that don't require use of that sleight and a professional could live without it (whether or not he would want to is another question).
For me, a memorized deck is indispensable because one of my signature pieces makes use of one. When performing professionally, I ALWAYS have the deck with me. In my opinion, the only question is whether or not memorized deck work is appropriate for a 3rd or 4th grade textbook on magic. Larry D. |
Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
Thanks Larry-san,
Our 4th grade textbook is like Vol.5 of Card College in level, although our concept is much different than Mr.Giobbi's. Thanks Doug-san, As you intimated, we don't include pure card flourishes in our textbooks. Of course we include 'Fanning', 'Spreading', 'Dribble Off', 'Charilier Cut', etc which I think to be indispensable ones to produce magical effects. Thanks again for your advices. I decided only to introduce the basic of Memorised Stack breifly in our course. After finishing publishing basic course, we will publish more special ones for indipendent categories. I think I will write a book on Memorised Stack in such a sereies. Thank you very much again for your help. regards, Hideo Kato |
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