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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Re: Yoo Toob....
There aint no way to kill that "dragon"! Magic has been exposed for more years than I can begin to count! Way back in the '30s, when I was beginning, "Alexander the Magician" published "The Magic Show Book". I found it in the library (793.8!) it was MY FIRST BOOK about magic. Alexander was roundly criticized, by amateur magicians (I learned much later)for exposing "servantes", the organ pipes, the die box, the dye tube, ETC. That book gave ME a start! Here is a point to consider: IMO,! MORE MAGIC IS EXPOSED BY INEPT PERFORMERS, WHO DON'T LEARN THE FUNDAMENTALS, AND, DON'T PRACTICE THE BASIC SKILLS, THAN YOU TUBE! I'm not DEFENDING those who choose to show off their lack of ethics, and, also, their lack of performing ability! we who love magic, and love to perform, need to keep in mind that: MAGIC IS FIVE PERCENT SLEIGHT OF HAND SKILL, FIVE PERCENT ESOTERIC PRINCIPLES OF SCIENCE, FIVE PERCENT PERCEPTUAL ILLUSION, AND, >>>EIGHTY-FIVE PERCENT PSYCHOLOGY!<<< I worked a "few" thousand Senior High Schools in my 50 years on the road, Granted that there was no internet, and NO YOO T00B, until, perhaps 10 years before I retired, but, I managed to fool (and ENTERTAIN) those young people with the basic classic tricks. (A few of them that were exposed 500 years ago!) I did the color changing silk, the boomerang stick, the "six spot, three spot, four spot, nine spot card" basic ball sleights, cut & restored rope, Professor's Nightmare, the "Slydini Knots", the egg bag, the linking rings, the coin pail, the brakawa wand, and fan, the Disecto, rabbit production from silks, two dove productions from ailks & dove bag, ETC. Backstage, before the show, I regularly knocked the socks off the student stage crew, with BASIC coin sleights. I've never considered myself as the "world's greatest", but, I got standing ovations from those kids, with fundamental tricks, most of which had been exposed over the years. If you want to be a real magician, LEARN THE PRINCIPLES! Read more books on SHOWMANSHIP, and, the way to make magic ENTERTAINING.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Calvin Tong Special user 718 Posts |
YouTube has revolutionized how people learn things in general. More content is available, it's assessable faster, and it's repeatable.
Pre-Internet, people would check out books from the library or buy books from Barnes and Noble. Today, it's all at their finger tips. From a learning perspective, this is a good thing and it's a way to get content to people who may not have access to it. But it also means that abuse of this technology will advance exposure at the click of a button. In the past, I would keep up to date with magic books sold at General book stores to find out what can be easily accessed by lay people. I would then make it a point "not to perform" those published routines and "layer" my routines so that correlations could made between published routines and my routines. But with the "intentional" exposure of magic methods which is clearly not meant to "teach" (and is more meant to "expose" for entertainment).........that is a challenge with no clear answers except to continue evolving our skill and keep it underground. However, it doesn't support our goals to spread the art of magic either. This is a tough one.
Cal Tong
President Emeritus IBM Ring 216 Silicon Valley |
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J-Mac Inner circle Ridley Park, PA 5338 Posts |
Very well said Calvin.
Thank you. Jim |
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Bande Elite user 430 Posts |
Couple thoughts: First: Knowing how something is done is quite different than knowing how to do it -- and if it is done by the best it is sometimes even more amazing. I can do a reasonable RV, but when I watch Micky Silver do it my jaw drops -- I know what he is doing but still cannot see it -- I find it even more amazing knowing what to look for and still seeing nothing but magic. Second: people buy tricks sometimes just to learn the secret and/or google how it is done -- I have done it in the past and I find that the answer it usually disappointing and ruins the magic -- I think most people who do that will either stop because it is no longer fun or like me they get really interested in learning how to do it themselves. Sure there are always a few people that enjoy spoiling the moment for others, but I think they are rarer than you think -- and if handled well generally go away -- it is like going to a comic a second time and yelling out the punchline before he gets there -- generally just annoys the audience and they silence him.
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Calvin Tong Special user 718 Posts |
Just look at the hits on youtube videos exposing magic and it will shock you.
Question for you Magi's: when you folks perform magic at a show, do you speak with the audience before hand? afterwards? I always talk with the customers and I always ask them about their exposure to magic: have they seen magic before and if so, where and who? what did they see performed? do they enjoy it? do they know how it was done? how do they know? NOTE: customers love to speak with the magicians after the show. 2 answers always come up: the masked magician and youtube. customers love to talk about what they know. If you ask them, they will tell you. So there is no need to assume. I am not saying that everyone or a majority or lay people know all the methods. But all the data out there tell us that people are looking for answers and the internet will give them an answer in a matter of seconds. Very different than the old days where laypeople had to work hard to get the answers.
Cal Tong
President Emeritus IBM Ring 216 Silicon Valley |
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Invisticone Regular user 132 Posts |
Wondering how something could possibly be done is an inherent part of magic. There can be no willing suspension of disbelief. I don't think it's very easy to research methods on the internet, especially as far as coin magic is concerned.
There are thousands of tutorials on double lifts, not so many on shuttle or click passes. There are some poor tutorials on false transfers, but these are easy enough to figure out intellectually if that is all a routine is based on. So I don't think youtube is a problem. Anybody seen any tutorials on, say, 4 coins across? |
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Invisticone Regular user 132 Posts |
Out of curiosity I've just googled "magician takes coins from hand but he always has 3", the first trick description in laymans terms of the top of my head. Dismal failure in finding tutorials or revelations.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
I'm definitely from the older generation. I've been following this thread from its inception.
Interesting, to me, and, I would guess to at least a few of the other old geezers, is the fact that no one has disagreed with what I said (so far!). Oh! and nobody "liked" what I said, either! In fact only one comment by a young man just out of his teens, I believe, was 'liked", and, while he mentioned a technique, his major point was what many of us have realized, since "forever". Another interesting point (again, to me at least): I'm the only one, commenting on this thread, who was a full time professional. I don't mean to denigrate amateur magicians, I'm just saying that those of us who make, or have made, a LIVING from performing as magicians, have opinions that may differ. I would hope that a full time professional, or, more than one, would chime in..
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Invisticone Regular user 132 Posts |
Hi Dick!
I read and liked your post, and have now "liked" it. I also "liked" the other post, although that was actually by accident trying to swipe down with my phone (not to say I dislike it Zach, but such a vanish is very easy to backtrack to, as th 9yo kids I teach would quickly point out to you). I have only spent a few number of years at this game, but agree completely that showmanship and entertainment are far more important than how obscure and indetectable your trick is. If a trick has only the mystery of the method to offer, then that is all people care about. On the other hand, who cares exactly what, for example, Mr Mullica does with all those cigarettes? The whole routine is far more amusing than the mere method. I also think you are right on about exposure being a fact, wether you like it or not. You just have to live with it. Its a personal choice to what extent you let it influence your repertoire. That said, I think magicians sometimes overestimate how much laymen care about such things, and how much effort they are willing to put in. Oh, and Soumyajit, I don't think you need to thrash kids for doing their best to work out how tricks are done.. It's their nature! Plus, their keen eyesight and glee at pointing out any flashes have certainly improved my coin magic! Apologies for typos, sent from my phone. |
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ZachDavenport Inner circle Last time I posted I had one less than 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2016, Invisticone wrote: Never had a nine year old figure it out, and I've shown it to a fair number of them.
Reality is a real killjoy.
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Invisticone Regular user 132 Posts |
A standalone classic palm vanish with no ditch or aquitment? Either I'm missing something, or your acting is great. In that case congratulations!
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Hey, Dick -- you know that I read and appreciate everything that you offer here from your experience which is much different from mine.
I can pick out what works for me, ignore what does not and chuckle throughout the process. But, I have never thought that "linking" or "not liking" is essential function or that the value of ones thoughts are measure my the number of adulations. No one responded to my posting above either way, but I am confident that some gave a momentary pause in reflection, and that a few might find a seed of future development. Possibly this is one reason why I chose not to be "an entertainer" as a career. I can certainly accept that applause and recognition are essential to such a career. Just a bit sad for me to see you apparently looking for "likes' as a measure of anything beyond the ability to press a button on an electronic device. I "know" that your postings and books and now offered tricks/routines will have a positive impact on some professional anna-be's and amateurs too. Better yet, it may keep some looking for an easy path from performing before they are prepared (or ever) Kudo's for that! I am just another "old fart" who feels that every interaction with another person can have a positive result: magic performed, story told, simple kindness in a grocery line or while driving a car. Maybe the smiles I see, laughter heard and intelligent comments shared are "likes" of a sort. Regardless, please keep posting -- just because you can.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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ZachDavenport Inner circle Last time I posted I had one less than 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 3, 2016, Invisticone wrote: I generally don't do it stand alone because that's just boring. Although I have before. I usually follow it with a reproduction with a built in hand wash I came up with.
Reality is a real killjoy.
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 4, 2016, funsway wrote: Hi Ken! Sorry, I didn't respond sooner! It's nice to hear that SOMEBODY reads my fumble (oops, Humble--!!??) scribblings! I appreciate YOUR thoughtful comments, too. As I was writing my last post, above, I paused, and scrolled up the thread to check one or two points. I happened to note the fact that only one post had a "liked", and, I mentioned that, when I got back to commenting on the OP's (and, others') posts. I didn't mean to imply anything! Heqq! As you know, I've been "around" too long to be overly concerned if someone disagrees with me. If someone does disagree, I'm well able to engage in a discussion! I've had, to my knowledge, only two people who "seriously" disagreed with comments that I made, and, that was a matter of definition of terms, or a misinterpretation. I later received a "poison pen" PM from one of them. I ignored it. Another old friend in the Café, advised me to report the PM. I decided that it wasn't worth getting "excited" about. The other person, was "told" by three others to "back off"! He did. None of us old geezers get "paid by the word"! (hee hee) When I comment, it's usually to clarify a point, define a term or two, or help to illustrate with an anecdote. I've had the privilege of mentoring a "few" young fellows (and, a few older ones, too!) in the past (and, currently, two young ones, and two old ones!) I've also had the pleasure of watching them develop and mature into fine performers. (Not a "few" became full timers!) One of them eventually trouped with an "18 wheeler" full of "big boxes", and another played the "big Apple" successfully! So! let us both continue to comment, counsel, and, yes, "correct", when we see a need!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 2, 2016, Invisticone wrote: Thanks for your kind thoughts! Yes! Too many get overly concerned about tricks, and, methods! (They should read S.H. SHARPE'S comment about TRICKS!!!) As I noted in my first post, MOST of the tricks and routines that I've used for most of my performing life, have been exposed many times! I realize that the OP's post was mainly regarding coin sleights being exposed on You Tube. I'm certainly not "thrilled" by those poorly performed exposes! When I was a young guy,starting out, I was "into" coin stuff. I learned the Downs p**m when I worked in a side show. I was 15. I learned to do the coin roll with four coins, simultaneously. I did the Fred Kaps "Coins & Glass", ETC. The members of Ring 103 were impressed! --An agent who gave me a "try out" date, YAWNED! He said, "Make 'em laugh, and, I'll get you work!" I did, and, he did. Years ago, I developed a "20th Century Silk" routine (thanks to T. Francis Fritz for originating the concept!) that plays for the audiences that I worked for. A year or so ago, I was browsing YOU TUBE, and, noted some klutz "demonstrating" (certainly not, PERFORMING!) THE 20TH C. It was pitiful. There were about 20 or more demonstrations by various "magicians". Each hacked his way through the 20th C. They all "did" the stereotyped routine. They didn't expose the METHOD. Here comes the BUT::: They certainly demo'd that, MAGIC IS NOT INHERENTLY ENTERTAINING! As you noted, it's SHOWMANSHIP! --The PERFORMER IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE PROP! BTW, I knew Tom Mullica when he was a teenager. Tom UNDERSTOOD! Those cigarettes, AND, HIS SHOWMANSHIP, took him to Europe for an EXTENDED ENGAGEMENT! He quit doing the cigarettes, when a mutual friend, a doctor, told him that he would get cancer if he didn't quit, he quit.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
Unfortunately we're fighting a losing battle when it comes to exposure especially when the originators are not willing to ask for the posts to be removed from youtube.
I have a well known card magician as a friend on facebook with whom I have exchanged meesages with quite a few times, I once messaged him to say that someone was exposing some of his effects on youtube, I gave him the name and even a step by step walk through on how to get it removed which would have taken less than 2 minutes and he didn't even bother to respond. This is what we're up against :-( |
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