Thank you Dick. While I was being brought up, my parents taught me to call someone Mr. Mrs. , or Miss, especially when it is someone you respect, unless they say otherwise.

I do appreciate the courtesy! --and the respect!!! (My parents taught me that, too.)

Now that I'm in my "second childhood", it's OK to use, "Dick" (When my mother used "Richard", I knew that I was "in trouble"! hee hee

[quote]On May 31, 2018, RS1963 wrote:
Yes Bill a real magic shop can show effects and really must. The ones that don't are either the tourist traps or shops that have people that really don't understand magic at all either.

Well, RS1963, I'm not going to waste my time, explaining basic terminology.

I write, using my own name, not some "nom de plume" I DARE YOU to identify yourself, although I doubt that you will.

Not mentioned is the Docc Hilford presentation on The Vault DVDs that uses a small ungimmicked key. Atmosphere is everything with this item and the SLOW moving is essential for the effect to hit home. Imo, don't let the turn happen for a while so that when it finally does turn it seems impossible. Regardless of whether you present it as a pk effect or more bizarre item it should seem difficult using your mind or contacting the spirits. Just my two cents.

I find that today a skeleton key is such an anachronism to younger audiences that the trick is considered a gimmick. Many people today know what ideomotor response is as well. I don't think anyone finds it that spooky. I do do the rising feather from theater of the mind and that seems to get a lot more attention. It's a pk effect people can identify with. The haunted key is a little long in the tooth for today.

It's true. Some folks CANNOT show this trick and get a spooky response. The people that DO this successfully can tell a meaningful story and demonstrate it. Not all spectators react the same way. I find I get the best responses at night. Timing is everything! During dinner is not the time. Attitude is EVERYTHING! YOU have to appear spooked by it! A bit of acting. Ya gotta be good on the pre-sell! Set it up right. I see this performed as a throwaway too many times. "Watch!" ~plop~ Put it away. It SHOULD be part of a much larger presentation. Like the feather Hermit mentions.

It's not a trick for everyone, that much is certain. But I have a GOOD time with it!

Doug

That "says 'it' VERY WELL, Doug! IT'S ALL IN THE P R E S E N T A T I O N.

A good magician, KNOWS, when a trick of this type, will play. I would not THINK of performing the key, CASUALLY.

I taught a girl this trick once. She got GOOD! A crazy eye...the low hisss!!! Latin words muttered! Hell, she almost had ME believing it! That's when ya know you're good!

Doug

The key I use is about 5 inches long and made of brass. I found it while browsing a flea market. The proprietor had a price of $10... I picked it up to see if it would work, when it rolled over... she almost gave me the key to remove it, had I told the story I use, I think she would have paid me to take it.

FTR, I’m doing the Dr. Jaks presentation on the tip of my middle finger on the Vault video. I also like using my palm, but it’s better to use THEIR palm. One has to know how to make the subject move the key without knowing that they’re moving at all.

I disagree about the key seeming obscure to young people. Anyone over 17 has seen skeleton keys in almost every popular horror movie as well as other movies. They instantly recognize it and want to see it!
I might add that I do NOT believe in this ideo-motor nonscense. (With respect) It’s been proven that like centrifugal force, it doesn’t exist. The unconscious and subconscious muscle and nerve reactions are a combination of several aspects of human nature. I make a big deal out of it because Ormond McGill taught me all about them (the reactions) and how much can be done with them when we approach them with a larger understanding. When magicians/mentalists restrict themselves with an antiquated ideo-motor response method, they can cheat themselves out of lots of strong magic.
Here are several methods that are not ideological-motor, although they still get labeled as such:
Open Suggestion can cause all sorts of movements
Conscious reactions (likes, dislikes)
Subconscious reactions
Nerve stimulation
Muscle stimulation
and many more.

Several good effects using the human reactions (for lack of a better term) can be found in Ormond’s Psychic Magic.
The Abbotts manuscripts have everything, the book was heavily edited, and I think he used the old term “ideo-motor” back then when he wrote them.
Last, by exploring this new attitude of physiological and mental reactions your audience will never claim you’re using ideo-motor, even if they think they know what that was.
Peace
Docc

In the 1990s, Gary Lee Williams taught me his marble in a sealed tube experiment.
The tube was placed in the subject’s palm and you used your psychic abilities, demonstrated through you extended fingers, to grab the marble (non-Ferris so no magnets) and visually pull it to the other end of the tube!
It blew people’s minds.
All based on the key, but masterfully disguised.
That reminds me... where did I put that tube🤔?

Docc

Hey Docc! THANK YOU for adding to the discussion with your wisdom!

It is very refreshing to have someone with not only knowledge, but, also wisdom, contribute to a discussion about "magic" with "esoteric" props like the Haunted Key.

Your erudite post, with good grammar (!) is especially welcome! I get very "tired" of reading the contributions of some, who butcher our language, and, tell me that my show consists of only "easy silk tricks".

I had the privilege of inviting Ormond to dinner, after watching him perform in California, about 30+ years ago. His performance was a delight! Our dinner conversation was even more delightful!

That evening was very inspirational. We had a marvelous discussion. I shall never forget him.

Wow Docc! I too was shown the marble tube while in NYC at Tannen's Magic Shop at 1540 Broadway. I made mine out of a clear plastic tube with black rubber stoppers at each end and a glass almost clear marble. The props did dispel the notion of magnets. I would have a hard time sometimes getting the marble to move slowly in the participants hand and so at times I would hold the fingers of the participant looking for just the right time to let go while telling them the marble would move slowly.

It's been a long time since I've done the effect but I appreciate your reminding me of it. THANK YOU!

Our Odd Fellows Lodge just bought a Victorian farmhouse that we are refitting to be our Lodge. It has skeleton key locks. Well, when I give tours, I bring out my original Ghost Key that I cleaned off all of the plating, blued, and let slightly rust so it has a very nice patina...the reactions that I get are amazing. I always hear, "Is this house haunted?", then I just give them the "look" after the key has turned over. It's an oldie but a goodie and very powerful if used sparingly and in the right setting.