Philip,

I can relate to this topic. I've done magic for over thirty years, and have had my share of hecklers and people whose ego HAS to be the biggest around. It does depend on the people you perform for. Jaxon's advice (per usual) is great, as are the other posts here...I can only add, that the problem was the worst when magic was FIRST and foremost in my life. Everyone I knew had seen just about everything I could perform (and some I COULDN'T, LOL), and were quite bored with it, but they were graciously quiet about it, and they humoured me nonetheless.

Now, in fact just the other day, someone who's known me a number of years said to me, "Wow...I can't believe you just did that! I had NO idea you were a magician!" It became apparent right then! I've kept magic only for special occasions recently, and find it is MUCH more appreciated. I've also toned down my "personality" quite a bit, as I found that to be a distraction from the effects I was trying to perform.

"Tricks that will really blow people's mind?"

Ones they were not expecting you to do. Ones you do SO well, they go and tell OTHERS what they saw, build you up to THEM, then the OTHERS see what you do SO WELL, they go and tell other people...well, you see where I'm going...

Sorry for the long post. The topic got to me. Been there!

Doug

Phillip, perhaps I can suggest a book that might help you understand all this in a deeper sense, because this topic is just too big to fit in anything less than a book(or books). Strong Magic by Darwin Ortiz. It's just been recently reprinted and if you do a search on the forum you'll find that it comes highly recommened. There are NO tricks in it, only good advice on making your close-up magic powerful. Great book to add to your library.

Good Luck.

I also would suggest finding other local magicians or trying to find a club in your area. By working with others, you can get proper feedback on technique and presentation.

The almost-too-common criticism you get in the real world is "I saw that", or "I know what you did"... which is feedback that usually makes you work harder, and not necessarily smarter.

Mentalism would be a good way to go if you really want to fool someone. Invest in Richard Osterlind's Breakthrough Card System. With this system, you can do things that, to most people, will seem like nothing short of straight-up mind reading. You won't get any smart aleck comments after you perform an effect using this system.

Phillip,

I've found (and Darwin Ortiz says as much in the above-mentioned "Strong Magic") that there is no stronger type of effect than one in which the spectator does the magic, or in which the magic at least happens in his/her hands.

Then the know-it-all isn't in the role of critic watching you perform, he/she is physically involved -- making it much harder to stay emotionally univolved.

So, I've built my repertoire on effects like "Out of this world," "Spectator deals the aces," and mentalism effects like Banachek's "ESP card opener" -- all which let the spec be the star (with magical assistance from you.) Similar effects can be found for coins, such as "Coins Across" that ends in the spectators hands.

Look around and you'll find lots of other possibilities. In short, if you make the audience a collaborator, they're much less likely to keep their defenses up.

Hi guys,

Once again, thanks you for the wonderful reply Doug, Dark, Aris, John?, Blackwood.
I definitely will check out Darwin Ortiz's Strong Magic!

Still have to work on my skills and presentation.
I guess I'll have to practise real hard and do something that involves the spectators, and something they don't expect at all. And I also have to go out more and perform in public. I've don't that only several times. Still need to work darn hard on the routines.

I'm also very interested in mentalism.
I know about that card system.
Actaully, I'm and really interested to Osterlind's Mind Mysteries series.
Do you guys think it's suitable for beginners in mentalism?
I'm sure I'll work my hardest on it.

Thanks again

Philip Chau

I would say NFW is a great mind blower. If the situation is right I'll let the spectator handle the 4 aces at the end and by seeing the look on there face you know there brain got fried.

No mather whatever you do there will be some people who will never believe you and act like they are unimpressed.u cant find anyone now that really believe the wizards magic can u.the point is I think to do a good trick and be satisfied that you have fooled them even if they are smart.they are smart but you are smarter than them.i have the same prob..when I first get into magic and I show my friends my trick..they will say wow..and then they say, I know u..u are no pro magician. there is something. for me as long as the something remains a secret it is good.just don't get frustrated and keep doing ur magics..do alot..learn alot..show them you can do more than they think..learn impromptu..soon enough you will hear them saying..i don't know how you did it but you are good. that's enough.the trick is variety in your magic and your own style.dont copy wat has been done over the tv.

For a trick that blows people away take a look at Dan Harlan's "Crazy Eight's". I love that one. They never see it coming.

I agree that it is all in the presentation. I had this one person that I loved to show things too. She always gave me a good response and seemed to enjoy the magic. One day I was showing some kids a simple routine with a HOT ROD, and she happened to walk by and watch over my shoulder. From her response you would have thought I just parted the Red Sea. She had never given me a response like that before and of all things to blow her mind with it turned out to be a simple Hot Rod. Just goes to show you, you never know.

Allan

Alas, since I have no suggestions of my own (I'm often in the same boat), I made some observations instead:

Nicely said, catbacker !
I think that distinction is worth repeating.
The Dunninger quote earlier in the thread is golden too.

Blackwood, that sounds like a winning strategy for hecklers. By making them part of the act, they're fighting themselves if they continue. Theirs is an ego problem, and by turning the tables on them and forcing upon them a vested personal interest in seeing the magic work, you've eliminated "the enemy".

[quote]On 2005-02-25 15:44, Dougini wrote:

"...people whose ego HAS to be the biggest around..."

I can relate to that. One of my best friends turned into "I know how you do that - it's just sleight of hand not real magic (well, duh!) etc etc" when I tried a few card numbers on him for the first time. I could not believe that he was like that and it totally put me off performing tricks for friends if he's in the room.

Nick

I think you have to do some very clean and short tricks with not so known methods, something like After Drinks, so they think (and hopefully say) there was no time for sleight of hand. Or do Oil&Water, very slow, with only six cards, there is nothing to get confused about.

Basically what they think is: in this complex environment, with 52 cards and two fast and trained hands, anything is possible, there is no need for magic. And you have to fight against that. Make it quick and easy, make it less complex, don't give them a chance to excuse themselfs with the 'disturbing situation'. There has to be the impression that all is very easy to understand, and they are not able to understand anyway.

Do a very short 'pick a card'-routine with a one way deck (a method seldom know or suspected by laypeople) or simply force them a card, without much presentation (in their view it's only misdirection), just let them get their card and reveal it as soon as possible.

Hope this helps...

I completely agree - one of the biggest mistakes you can make is to repeatedly try and "convince" people who don't "get" magic. I have a friend who, though not at all malevolent, will only ever see a trick as something to be puzzled out. For a while I fell into the trap of trying to find a trick that was going to "show her" - but it wasn't a question of the material - she simply didn't experience magic in a magical sense.

if people aren't receptive to wonder, the magic you show them will always be an unsatisfying experience for you both!

check out Derren Brown's Pure Effect and Absolute Magic for some wonderful insights into these matters.

Well like other have said it is how you present the trick. You can't just do a trick and get great reactions without setting the scene so to speak. The story is half of the trick. One if nothing without the other. That is just what I think though.

As for mentalism I really like Out of Sight Out of Mind because it isn't presented as a card tirck but as a feat of mind reading which just happends to use cards.

Want to really play with their minds?

"Out to Lunch"

Steve

I am incredibly fortunate in that I have had a mentor in magic for the twelve or so months that I have been fascinated by magic.I have been performing as a stand up comedian for several years and met my mentor through that meduim.
He has never taught me tricks but instead has constantly given me little gifts of skill and left me do with it what I will.
The three strongest pieces of advice he has given me are also I believe the simplest.
Never do a trick, perform a piece of magic.A trick is something that can be figured out, magic happens.
Only ever do one illusion, you want to be remembered as the guy that made the cigarette disappear not the guy with the thousand card tricks.
Always look for the reaction not the response, if you catch the moment when you bend their mind what comes out of their mouth is immaterial.
I often used to fall into the trap that the people were as excited about seeing an illusion as I was about being able to perform it.Now, I just let magic happen and the most valuable gift my mentor gave has given me is patience.
Thanks to everyone's advice on this subject it has been a huge help.
Cheers Tony Roberts.

** Warning ** I would take the above quote as an example of what not to try and do.

I'm sorry Jack is dead. I would have to completely disagree with you on a few things.

MAGIC, or I prefer to call it "The Art of Astonishment" (thanks goes to Paul Harris for that). Is not about proving to someone that you are sneaker or smarter than a person you are preforming for. that's not the point in magic. I do it to entertain people and give them that moment of astonishment that we all love to receive. If you are skilled with a deck of cards or magic in genral why would you want to use it to prove that you are better than anyone? Use it to dispay your art to people and give them that moment of astonishment, then they will come back for more.

Just my thoughts on your post.

-G-

Awesome post Jaxon.

Sorry to go off topic, just wanted to apolagize for the horrible spelling in the above posts. I didn't want to hurt anyones eyes, ... things happen to me when I tipe.... doh! there I go again.

Hi guys,

Thanks again for the wonderful advise.
I totally agree with the point about differenciating between 'entertaining' and 'fooling' people.
I guess the most important is the everyone is having fun and enjoying their time

Philip

Sometimes if you psyche people out by giving them fake-me-out scientifical explanations, it's amazing what will happen.

I did a rubber band routine, and I could tell that a couple of the people in the group weren't going to be fooled easily, so I asked for a match and gave everyone a crash course in psychis and how fire can melt rubber to a point where it could penetrate another rubber without breaking it. With enough acting and explanation, people were nodding and saying "yeah, that makes sense!" when in fact it's complete BS. HAH!

That is such a wonderful thought.