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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
I have a sign and return booking agreement for kid's parties. As well as confirming the details, the parents have to tick off these conditions and then sign and return a copy to me. They all sign and return but mayeb 20% just IGNORE the conditions.
I've tried making them 'helpful tips' and this is even LESS succesful in getting the ideal working environment. Should they be shorter? Or longer? Or simpler? Or more serious? Help! If I do one more party where the family terrier tries to jump on my rabbit box and the mum serves food in the MIDDLE of the show I'm gonna go NUTS! ---------------- An adult must to be present during the visit and children aged three and under will require an adult to sit with them. The performance area should be a minimum of 2.5 m wide by 1.5 metres deep situated in front a wall or similar barrier. The children should be situated directly in front of this area on a rug rather then chairs. You make like to provide seats or couches for adults to sit on at the back. No one should behind or beside the performance area during the show. (Otherwise, someone might learn my secrets!). Please ensure the room is free from items that might cause accidents and disruptions such as noisemakers, balloons, toys etc. Please avoid serving food and drink during the show. As Lou the Bunny will make an appearance in the show the performance area should be indoors, covered verandas and garages are fine, away from the weather and any pets you might have. |
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2477 Posts |
You got a lotta conditions, pal!
I know you'd LIKE things the way you described, but (you've hit on the real problem here) they don't read and they don't particularly care (unless something goes wrong, and then it's ALL YOUR FAULT, YOU BAD MAGICIAN!) I can't count the parties I've had where the grandparents arrive mid-show, walk right into the middle of the audience and start hugging and talking. Or where you're in a doorway between livingroom and diningroom and there are grownups getting the table ready behind you (I don't want to upset you, but most grownups aren't all that eager to discover your secrets, and it really doesn't matter). Or where the men in the house absolutely refuse to turn off the football game and we're in the kitchen or the hallway. They're paying your fee - what are you gonna do, leave? You need to be much more flexible (since they're guaranteed to continue not listening) and only ask for what you genuinely need (the part about the family dog). And if you have to repeat your remaining demands right on the spot, at least THEN someone is listening. I send a confirming letter with the few things I really MUST have in red bold type (I need a space in the driveway, two people to carry in my stuff, and a way in that has a wall or a rail by any steps) - seeing as I walk with a cane, if I don't get at least that, the show's not gonna happen.) (PS - I absolutely LOVE shows where someone decides that it's such a beautiful day that the kids can stay right where they are in the garage and I can work right off the car's tailgate!) Anyway, the letter is accompanied by my "Top Tips for a Great Party" sheet, which lists stuff that really helps make things better (or at least they can't say I didn't TELL them that their 2-year-old won't be helping in the show). And sometimes they don't read that, either. See the sheet at http://www.goodmagic.com/magic/planner.htm Best of luck! PS (again) - "the few things I really MUST have in red bold type" There is one remaining requirement for my show, and many parents DO ask - all I need is enough room to sit 'em on the floor, and where I couldn't kick anyone from where I stand. I put it just that way - it gets the space requirement vividly into their minds. |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
I have five conditions...
I MUST have a big enough space - I need the room otherwise I can't do the show It does matter if parents see the methods - what sort of magician doesn't care if people see how his tricks are done?!?! I had a three year old come up and pull over my table ON TOP of himself. They NEED to be supervised. My show MUST be indoors becuase australia is HOT and my rabbit will die. I could get by with balloons, noisemakers, food, drink and other stuff in the room but my shows are infinately better with popping, spilling, parents walking in front of me to serve food. |
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2477 Posts |
Sorry you didn't like my ideas above. If you can't adjust to "live with" some annoying conditions, you're likely to experience a lot of fruatration on an ongoing basis, because you can't change human nature (people keep trying, but it newer works) and they will CONTINUE to not listen.
Perhaps you can work on improving the strength of the impression your conditions make. Don't make the confirming letter the first time they hear about your needs - finish your booking conversation by TELLING them, "here's what I absolutely must have in order to serve you best," at the end of the conversation. But try to think about ways you could adjust a little. "I need the room..." - if you are constantly finding yourself not provided with enough room, can you find some effects that take less room? It's a bit like saying "I can't do my asrah levitation because homes usually don't have fly galleries" ... so find something a little more compact! "It does matter if parents see my methods..." - if every mommy and daddy you encounter is sneaking backstage to find out your closely-guarded magic secrets then there is a lot too much emphasis on "I can do something that you can't." A lot of the magic community needs to GET OVER THEMSELVES with all the "I'm a keeper of inviolable secrets and if anyone finds out, I'll lose my powers." You might disagree, a lot of guys do, but I still think that a good act ought to have so much entertainment value in the presentation that the "how did he do that" is just icing on the cake. "I had a three year old come up and pull over my table ON TOP of himself." - You expect to be able to nail their bottoms to the chairs? They're KIDS, they're going to be active, and a contract or letter is never going to guarantee that parents will agree to position themselves around the room and act as prison guards ... "Sit down or it's a week in the hole for you, killer!" YOU are going to have to find some strategies for keeping the wandering to a minimum. My evidence for this? The multitude of posts in this topic about "how can I keep them from wandering around?" And in response, there are a multitude of suggestions posted ... NONE of which include "put it in a letter that you need to keep your kids from wandering around." "My show MUST be indoors..." - Yeah, I can't do mine either without (as I tell them in my "10 Tips" sheet) good solid shade both for the audience and for me. The bunny would bake in his box, and in the hot sun, I tend to just fall over and lie there twitching occasionally. This is clearly a "MUST HAVE", but, again, the bottom line on clients is clearly a "DON'T LISTEN." Find yourself a strategy for making a stronger impression, and find yourself a strategy for making sure they've heard you ... "do you have a room inside with enough space for me to do the show? [and tell them what 'enough space' means and remind them what 'inside' means.") "I could get by with balloons, noisemakers..." - Then learn to get by with them. If they don't value the show they've spent all that money to buy, then they haven't been given an adequate appreciation of what they're buying. Or, possibly, given that it's a gosh-darned KID'S PARTY, you may have to expect the odd balloon or other party accoutrement to find its way into the house. Where are your audience-management skills? "Good heavens, it sounds like there's a flock of geese in here ... let's put the noisemakers away so everybody can hear what's going on!" |
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MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
Read all of these again then understand EXACTLY why Brian Flora worked out of an apron.....
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
I'd rather sort out problems BEFORE they happen and not wait until it happens to try and sort it out.
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2477 Posts |
I'd rather have all problems sorted out in advance, too. And I've worked for years refining strategies to do as much of that as possible. And I believe that, over the years, my success in doing so has improved. But neither you, I nor anybody else will never get to 100%, for the reasons I mentioned - pretending otherwise is a recipe for lifelong disappointment. You will always have the unexpected, and you will always have clients who don't listen or who don't take your requirements seriously. As Lincoln said, "You cannot dip clear water from a muddy stream."
I ask again ... what are you going to do? Walk? Gripe and be the "unpleasant magician"? Or devise efficient strategies to minimize the problems you might encounter, and firm but pleasant ways to fix the problems that you can't stop from recurring? |
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Billy Whizz Special user Plymouth, UK 576 Posts |
I think your doing the correct thing by having terms and conditions Nicholas. By have these, when you turn up, you can insist there is an adult in the room for example, if they argue the fact, show them the contract which they've signed.
Here are my terms: =============================================== 1. This Booking Form constitutes a Contract which is binding and acts to confirm the verbal agreement made between Billy Wiz Magician and the Client, as set out in the above schedule, for the agreed none negotiable fee, which is payable in cash on the day of performance, less the deposit. The inclusive terms and conditions of this contract shall be deemed accepted even if it is not signed and returned within the prescribed ten days provided no written objection has been made. 2. Cancellations- The Cancellation by the Client more than fourteen days before the date of performance will result in the forfeiture of the deposit. Cancellation within fourteen days of the performance date or on the actual day of performance, will result in the forfeiture of the deposit and the remaining balance of the fee shall be payable by the Client. Cancellations will NOT be accepted on the answer machine. 3. Parking: - It’s the booker’s responsibility to ensure there is adequate parking close to the venue entrance for Billy Wiz. He will have equipment to load/unload. If Billy Wiz cannot do the party due to lack of parking, the booker shall still be liable for the Full Performance Fee. (Unloading/loading then parking elsewhere is not an option.) 4. Billy Wiz Magician is not engaged in a supervisory role, therefore please ensure at least two responsible adults are present during the entertainment to act in such a role. =============================================== As for having people behind you as Ross mentioned, NO WAY! I would never have that. In 19 years, I've never had it, and I won't in the future either. When I turn up, if I had to, I would insist on working against a wall. I just tell them it's for obvious reasons. I don't think it looks professional to have anyone walking around dirctly behind your show. |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
What about beside the stage? I have parents who like to hang around at the side...
Your contract is very formal...does it put people offside? |
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graemesd Veteran user 369 Posts |
I have no conditions!
I discuss things on the day at the venue or on the phone. All the conditions that I have seen you all lay out are common sense. I will perform outside yes I prefer if a parent is in the room and 9/10 there will be 2 yr olds are normally looked after its common sense that they will have enough room for me to perform or they will not have booked me I control where the kids sit on the day personally in think alll these coditions just acsentuate the negative 'i don't/wont do this, I will need this, you must do that' sound all a bit bossy to me - I think we all get a bit above our station I also believe its proven that it achieves nothing |
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Billy Whizz Special user Plymouth, UK 576 Posts |
Hi Nicholas, in all the years I've been performing, I've never had anyone question the contract. The terms are there for my benifit as well as the clients. It makes them also feel reasured as they are dealing with a professional.
As for people working at the side of me, I don't really have a problem with that. I sometimes put a rope accross the sides to stop them getting too close. But in general, I've never had any concerns there. I just won't allow anyone behind me. If you went to a theatre, you wouldn't see people walking behind the act, so why should they be walking behind you and spoiling the entertainment. Quote:
On 2005-03-11 03:50, graemesd wrote: OK, so what about the 1/10 time there isn't. I would ask there to be an adult in the room as per the contract. Surly it's a 'must have' in this day and age. Quote:
On 2005-03-11 03:50, graemesd wrote: To you and I it is, but not always to the client. I've turned up at many a house party and had to get them to move this and that to make enough space. I do tell them on the phone roughly how much space I need, but that doesn't always make much difference. Quote:
On 2005-03-11 03:50, graemesd wrote: NO, it's called being a professional at what we do. Or at least, what some of us do!!! Graemesd, are you a full time working professional? Or are you just someone who does the occasional show? I've nothing against those who do the occasional shows, and I would guess that many of the members here that do, also work in a professional way. But I would also guess that a lot of the part timers don't bother with the proffesional paperwork as they don't do enough work to be bothered with it. Just curious now, could everyone say weather they are full time or part time, and weather or not they have terms and conditions on their contract? |
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p.b.jones Inner circle Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K. 2642 Posts |
Hi,
I think Billy is right I often get to a venue such as a village christmas party and people are all over well then I just get them to move... I am a professional performer if they want the show then they move! Phillip |
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stu-di-doo Regular user Cumbria, UK 160 Posts |
My contract terms are very similar to Billy's and I've never had anyone question them, in fact it makes me stand out as a professional performer.
Most parents will only organise one or two parties a year for their own kids. They hire you because you do hundreds every year. Therefore they expect you to take control somewhat. Firstly explaining your conditions etc when you are being booked and in the contract. Secondly if you turn up at a venue and the food is where your act should be, or the tv is on (big no no for that!!) you must tell them that little johnny or sarahs party would be so much better if..... I never used to have the confidence to say these things, but have now come to realise that most people are looking for you to take control. Stu |
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magicgeorge Inner circle Belfast 4299 Posts |
Ross, just because Nicholas wants to try and sort out all the problems, as best as possible, before they happen, does not mean he doesn't handle them well when they occur. You said yourself that you've been working on your strategies for sorting everything out before the show and this is exactly what Nick is doing at the moment.
I, too, try to imply all of Nick's conditions. It doesn't mean I'm going to go in a huff or deal with them unprofessionally if they do occur, it just means I'm trying to set up the conditions for the best possible show before I even start. What's your gripe? I definitely couldn't work with anyone behind me, if someone works out how your tricks work because they're behind you it'll reflect badly on yourself not on the person for being in the wrong place, as Ross knows well: Ross:"That was originally written in response to a letter complaining that "I figured out how all your tricks were done." It came from a parent who (despite being asked to move) insisted on spending most of the show BEHIND ME! (You saw the show from "backstage" and figured out the tricks? Well, DUH!) ... some clients are not only oblivious, they're just not capable of being clued in. " On the other hand, Nick, maybe you should just go with Mr Tripps suggestion, good luck stuffing your rabbit into an apron pocket. George |
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rossmacrae Inner circle Arlington, Virginia 2477 Posts |
"'i don't/wont do this, I will need this, you must do that' sound all a bit bossy to me - I think we all get a bit above our station. I also believe its proven that it achieves nothing"
Yeah, it could (a lot depends on your attitude on-site) - BUT I think the imposition of some conditions might also have one other beneficial function: inducing clients to take us seriously, not just as "some guy who's here to play with the children". I, too, am tired of the "I'm an artist, darn it!" attitude, but I do want my presence to be valued. "I never used to have the confidence to say these things, but have now come to realise that most people are looking for you to take control" To those who still find it a BIG OL' THANG, good heavens, you're charging at least $100 or so ... what's so darned hard about taking a little gentle control, smiling and saying "I think we're going to need a little more room to sit them down, and by the way, who can push the right button on the television"? "What's your gripe?" I don't believe I have one, but since Nick ASKED, I think some of his conditions (like the balloons thing) are asking for more than one can expect at a kids' party. "if someone works out how your tricks work because they're behind you it'll reflect badly on yourself" I agree, I wouldn't be comfortable with someone WATCHING the show from directly backstage, but I'm also saying that if there are people in other areas of the house or yard getting the food ready or otherwise going about their business and ignoring me, I'm not going to gather up my bathrobe like a teenage girl surprised in the shower and run away screaming. |
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graemesd Veteran user 369 Posts |
Hi billy
yes I'm a full time working pro and yes I have a contract but are you really going to get your contract out half way through the show and wave it about I don't think so yes I do have some guidelines in my paperwork too but they are guidelines not rules I agree that we need some one in the room often a parent has walked out and left me with the kids - they are normally back in 2 minutes or yes I will ask one to join me back in the room - this is such a rare occasion I think its happened once in 12 years I guess wot I was trying to say was that it doesn't matter wot you put in that contract there will always be something not quite right and as I said before sometimes these tings can sound very negative - I wasnt disagreeing with you particularly - I'm just not sure how much it achieves |
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Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
I design my shows for the venues I know I'm going to be working in not the other way around. I've heard of magicians that insist that the room that they are going to be performing in have all of the furniture removed. Others arrive with sound systems and backdrops for a perty that is in someones living room.
I've been doing this long enough to know what to expect at your typical birthday party so I plan accordingly. My act works out of a single case and can pretty much be done surrounded. It's light enough that if I have to park a couple of blocks away I have no problem lugging it that distance. I always travel in costume so I don't need to have a changing area and I can set and break down my show in less than a minute. I can perform outside or in the crampest of living rooms. Knowing that you might be doing a show under less than perfect circumstances and planning for it leads to far less headaches than trying to get the venue to fit around your show. But hey if you want to work yourself that hard knock yourself out.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Before I had this booking agreement most of the kids parties I did would have one of these hassles. In warmer months half would want an outdoor show and I'd waste their time and money trying to rearrange things in the house.
Now, I have far LESS people who have the wrong conditions and I am able to perform a BETTER Show that children enjoy MORE. All of my conditions are either for the benefit of my rabbit (i.e. no dogs or outdoor shows) or for benefit of the children (don't have people behind me because it will limit the routines I can do, don't give them food in the show because the parents serving will get in the kids way) |
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MarkTripp Special user Michigan 618 Posts |
Fellow Magi;
Like it or not this is common. 100% of my magic money these days is from schools. They pay me very good money and there is a major contract to be signed. Everything is in there, and yet 90% of the time they fail to do most of it, and in 50% of the cases they do none of it! Clearly this is the nature of the beast. What to do? Well, yes you can make all the demands, you can insist, you can force the issue because of the contract. However, I give out report cards after every show. I can assure you that cards after a show where I had to play heavy, are NOT what you want to show others. As such, you have to create shows that understand the nature of the beast. I have said here before that most magicians are taking to much that is too big into a place where there is no room and no control. Do as you wish, but the horror stories here are not new or unusual. That is what the 'business" of "show business" is all about. My DVD from Camirand makes these points and why I only worked out of my pockets for those shows. Before anyone says anything negitive about that, I will add Karrell Kox, Billy McComb, Terry Seebrook, Patrick Page, and many more giants did it the same way. For schools, if it needs more than two Lefler tables, its out. That is just the nature of the beast. When you have to carry these things up four flights of stairs, you will understand. You are a PROFESSIONAL, that means you can do YOUR ACT under ANY conditions. If you can't, then create one you can. Mark Tripp |
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
I think there is a lot to be said for adjusting your show to make it an 'any where, any time' affair. There is a BIG difference between doing this and saying things like "don't worry about parents seeing how tricks are done" or "sort it out when you get there"
However, what if David Copperfield showed up at a venue whilst on tour where they HADN'T provided the flying rig or backdrop curtain or a sound system that he required in his contract. Would just cut out that bit of his show to suit the venue? Of course not! This is not my commando busking show, this is a professional, highly paid party that deserves to be treated by me with respect. Of course I'm not David Copperfield but I can be just a professional. It is a tad defeatest to say "oh well, people never listen" because there is always SOMETHING you can do to change MOST people's behaviour. Sure, I KNOW there will always be SOME shows where conditions are not perfect but why not create the preconditions that allow for a GREAT show that the kids can enjoy without parents getting in way! Also, as Billy has pointed out, if you have a written agreement and parents INSIST on the show being outdoors, you can politely mention the agreement and things will get fixed ALOT quicker. So if we can get back to the orignal question.... What sort of wording do people find most successful? Billy Whizz has suggested a very formal contract. What would |
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