Hi!

I'm hoping someone can help an ignorant soul out. I am trying to get me a good classic palm and vanish.

Basically, I have two questions:

How long did it take you guys? I find as I bring out my practice coin, that sometimes it is virtually impossible to palm it with my 3rd and 4th finger, it will just drop to the floor or table, as if it ended up in the wrong place or my hand is too weak to grab it. I have only been trying to learn this for the last few weeks so I don't expect too much, but I would expect to be able to reliably palm it with some effort, even if I still have tells to lose. Am I being impatient? I am using an English 2 pound coin, which feels quite small and dense compared to a half dollar. If what I am going through is natural, I'd like some reassurance, if not, does anyone have any advice? I am wondering if there is a knack as to where on the fingers to place it before you turn your hand over.

Second, muscle fatigue. I think this may be the cause of my problem above. Does anyone have any good advice as far as taking care of my hands goes? I try not to overdo any practice but they still get a little sore sometimes. I don't mind, but I also want to know I'm not doing myself any harm. Is there a good warmup or anything? Also, does anyone have any good strengthening exercises?

Hope someone can help me out!

/Bamba

I've seen it mentioned many times here to choose the size coin right for your hand. If the 1/2 dollar fits best, use it. Also, try going an entire day with the coin palmed. The muscle fatigue just means the muscles are getting stronger! Also, if you have continuous problems with it falling out your hands may be too dry.

Thanks!

I'll give it another few weeks. If my hands are too dry, what do I do?

/Bamba

There are several discussions on hand care at the Café. Do a search for 'lotion' or something.

It sounds like you are over doing it.
If your hands start cramping and hurting then take a break.

Not unlike an athelete, some finger stetching before and after practice may help.

Hello.
Classic Palm...
My sincere advice is to watch a DVD "David Roth's Coin Magic Made Easy". Roth's explanation on classic palm is great help for biginners. Even advanced coin men it is a good clinic. The most importannt thing for classic palm is know the correct position to pinch a coin by two points of palm muscle. For that matter easier, I recommend to use a crown cap instead of a coin for a while. With a crown cap, you will know correct feeling of palming. Real secret of classic palm is hanging a coin by two points of palm muscle, NOT holding by palm. And when you are used to it, use a real coin. I think it will take about three months to master. Fortunately, however, it is much easier than shut-eye/cold reading. Good luck.

Thanks for the help guys. Yeah, I can be patient.

And Jay, I am using the roth tapes as my source. Nice dig about the readings

/Bamba

Hmmm, I don't see how anyone can classic palm by trying to place the coin with their third and fourth fingers. Unless these fingers twist far in, they can't get the coin to the center of the hand where it needs to be palmed. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm a second finger guy myself...

I would say rather than trying to palm it, just put it in a secure palm position with your other hand and hold it there for extended periods. When you get accustomed to holding it, try releasing it onto your fingertips. Wherever it lands is where it needs to be when you reverse the action and try to palm it.

Hi Traveller

This could be me using the wrong terminology. I mean ring and middle finger, does that make more sense?

Please forgive me, I am not experienced with this side of the field and I have never needed to talk about fingers in such detail before.

/Bamba

Open, many of us use our third fingertip to move coins into classic palm.

It tends to look better when your first two fingers are open to grab things as your third finger manages the coin transfer.

David Roth showed us how to do this in his book, which is a great resource.

I've said this before,but here goes. strengthen the muscles of the hand by lifting a key ring full of keys with the pinky and using something like a gel stress ball for the thumb. this will strengthen the needed muscles and change the contour of your palm much faster than trying to palm the coin. I have done this I now have a flatter cp and can use the two middle fingers, instead of the 3rd and 4th fingers, now that the mass of muscle at the thumb has been tightened up. think about it, using the coin is like dynamic tension exercises-it will work but takes time-add resistence and less time.
dug

OK this is a really stupid question, but lift the key ring palm up or palm down?

And how many repetitions? How often?

Thanks for your patience.

/Bamba

Muscle pass has different positions than classic palm, but uses the same muscles. By practicing muscle pass, you both train your msucles for classic palm and also practice the muscle pass. Check http://www.coinvanish.com in case you haven't already.

Having sores are normal, though I don't remember getting too much, I think half dollars are better, so I'd suggest practicing with that, although I think it's wise top practice with both small and large coins- they have different positioning.

not stupid at all. hold the hand thumb up perpindicular(sp?) to the floor rest on something or not lift untill you feel the burn do it every other day like any resistance exercise.
dug

To do the classicpalm *safely* also involves a psychological approach.

Meaning, that one first does the classicpalm safely, when one doesn't think about it anymore, if the coin gets 'trapped/palmed' safely or not..as long as one is spending a single thought on this, under fire, one hasn't yet reached *the point*..

One first does a 'safe' classicpalm, when one just does it, does it without thinking about it the slightest.

It simply should be part of the routine one is about to do, flowing unnoticed even by oneselfes..already thinking about the next step and probably a remark as a feedback to a spec to an earlier remark of his..simply don't even notive yourself when doing the classicpalm, just do it and move on.

Nonsense?
Nope, I learned it the hard way and now I just do it automatically, never a thought if the hands are too dry or too sweaty..just do the palm and it will work..it's sometimes the mind that bloks for a secure and safe, swift classicpalm, one has to get over this and this one only can after having overcome the first occational failures and noticed, the world is still turning around

Hi, Jon,

Third finger I can see...I sometimes use it depending on the context. In going over some coins moves in various routines I do, I see that I sometimes use second and third fingers together, but quite often second finger alone. What I couldn't see was using third and fourth fingers together, since that would place the coin too far to the side to arrive in classic palm position -- at least, in my hand.

At one time, I'd worked up just about every routine in the Roth book (except for a couple that used specialized props). It's wonderful stuff.


Bambaladam,

Generally, the index finger is the first finger, the pinky finger is the fourth.

Interesting
Maybe it also depends on the size of the hand?

I always thought I did use the second and ringfinger together for the job, but just found out, it IS the ringfinger that does the final job, the middlefinger is just supporting the coin, but not the one that gives the final pressure/push..

Size, training, habit, need, inclination, disposition, musculature, physiognomy...

Here is an easy test to do, works for each shape of a hand

Hold your hand palm up with fingers stretched.
First bent your ringfinger inwards normally and without any stress and se if its tip contacts the CENTER of your palm easily.
Do the same test with your middlefinger and note the differnece.

The middlefinger is normally slightly off center when touching the palm and touches the palm more in the direction of the thumb.
Also the middlefinger is stresses a bit more then the ringfinger in order to reach the palm.
I can't imagine this is diff. with diff. ppl, apart from some extreme ones with very trained and 'elastic' fingers.

So, I would postulate, ones ringfinger is the one that is most flexible in order to reach the CENTER of the palm without any stress of its leads, so that's the one to use for pressing the coin into classic palm..

Any objections ?

None here. That's just not the way I do it, that's all.

Jon mentions that it looks better to have the first two fingers open to grab things as the third finger makes the placement into classic palm. For my money, this just looked awkward in most magicians' hands. I much prefer to classic palm the coin on the way to picking something up (larger motion covering the smaller and all that) so that by the time I get there, all the fingers are open.

I do the same. I have the coin in fingertip rest all the time, and CP it only when in motion. Finger motion when yor hand doesn't move brings suspicion.