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Allan Given
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I was curious as to what everyone's thoughts are on which handcuffs provide the highest security, or in our terms, the most challenge for us to escape from? Would you consider Australian ADI's or something with Medeco locks? Just interested to find out what has given everyone the most difficulty!

Thanks!

Allan
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
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Anything legitimate and adjustable that you can add a challenge padlock to, such as a swing-thru cuff with 'padlocking holes' drilled through the bows and lockcase.

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
RickSilmser
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Kidd irons with a medico padlock...best darn fetter north of the border !

~Rick~
Paul Reardon
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Hello All,

Omitting vintage cuffs and for what it's worth (I don't do a handcuff challenge act), these are the cuffs in current production I'd concern myself with if I did...

The Chubb escort handcuff:
http://www.clcsltd.co.uk/handcuffs.htm . Like the Cuffmax Medeco retrofit Allan metions above, there is NO "common key" for this model to be had by the escape artist. I've shown my cuffs and key to many metro area Atlanta locksmiths and asked them if they could make a copy and they all looked at me like I had two heads. I think most of them had never seen a key like it, and most were unfamiliar with the type of lock that the cuff uses. Got hacksaw?

The Cuffmax Medeco retrofit - also easy to aquire and NO common key.

Honorable mentions besides Cuffmax Medeco are, I think, the Yuil brand and the Kyung Chang high security model. By all reports they are much more difficult to pick than Peerless, S&W, American, etc. and next to impossible to shim. The Yuil and KC cuffs are pretty easily available, inexpensive, and have the overall look and feel and of Peerless, S&W, American, etc. Aside from a lay person getting hold of these, I think law enforcement may see their benefit because they use a non standard key and adopt their use. I know most depts. require NIJ approval, etc. but I believe a C.O. sympathetic to the common key issue might ok their use. If I was presenting a challenge act, I would obtain a Yuil and KC key (or be able to pick same) to be on the safe side.

I'd also prepare for: ADI SAF-LOK, Revolier, Clejuso (several ranges), and Hiatt High Securty. Maybe another not-so-uncommon cuff that may pop up during a challenge would be the Spanish Fury flat key models.

Of course, there are techniques to handle challenge cuffs that the ea cannot open...and these techniques very much depend on the ea being in control of the challenge from the beginning. Without giving away any secrets, such ploys might involve: disqualifying a cuff due to its being obsolete or presumably "tampered with", using the cuff as a connecting ring in a string of cuffs, or employing a bold "key switch."

Paul
Allan Given
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Thanks for the great post Paul! Do you know of a good source to get the Cuffmax Medeco retrofits?
Ian McColl
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Hi Paul, I have made a limited number of shims for the Yuil and Chang handcuffs, the deadlock is easy to pick off and with my double and triple shims, the cuffs are easy. If there is interest I will make some more.

I will go with the Chubb Escort as the most difficult.

Ian
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Paul Reardon
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Hello Allan, I've pm'd you with ideas there.

Forgot to mention in my above post to be ready for the S&W 104 (or at any rate their high securty model with the narrow barrel and notch in the key tip)

Thanks Ian. I'm gonna try to pick off the double lock on each model. I may be pm'ing you for some help. When I can get proficient I'll need those shims!

Ian, I think the Yuil and KC could be useful to the average law enforcement agent who can't afford a cuffmax or ADI but who is troubled by the common key issue. I have spoken with an officer who had the relatively delicate 104key snap in his S&W 104s and am wondering if, in your opinion, you believe the Yuil or KC high security keys might be too delicate to use in everyday applications? Oh well didn't mean to go off topic....

Paul
Ian McColl
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Hi Paul, as a regular the handcuff I would also go with the Kyoung Chang and then the Yuil. I did ask John ? who made the Goncz handcuff several years back, "Why if he thought he had a new handcuff would he make it with the same old barrel key."? He said because you cannot sell anything different because of the confusion of handcuffs going with a person wearing them to another place where there is no key to fit.

It seem than convience is better than security. More to the EA's advantage.

Ian
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Dr_Stephen_Midnight
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With the US Marshal service and others using transport arrangements like a 10 oz Peerless with a Hiatt blue box and a belly chain, the need for a cuff like the S&W 104 comes into practical question.

I sometimes wonder if some 'high security' cuffs aren't manufactured just to pump cash out of EAs' pockets.

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
Cliffg37
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My thinking is that any pair of handcuffs that features a hinge, rather than a chain. I know those are escapable, but I personally have never tried. I don't know what I would do if someone arrived at a challenge with a set of those. I would probably go for it if I had a tool on me that I felt was the right shape, but I am not a fan of taking real risks in an escape. On stage the potential to ruin a reputation if always there in full force.

Oddly the one bet I lost while doing my college dorm bet escapes, only served to get me more challenges.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right!
Roslyn
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Hi all, the most difficult cuff I've tried to get out of is the Hiatt HSS9. For those unfamiliar it is the Hiatt cuff that dead locks with a waffer lock rather than the usual way. This means you can't just pick the lock off through the key way, but have to attack each waffer individually. Nightmare is the only word to discribe them.
In a challenge situation I think you'd have to resort to one of the 'methods' mentioned above. If anyone has actually done these legit, in a challenge with both dead locks on I'd love to hear from you.
Ros
Allan Given
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Both Ian and Steve are completely right. I think convenience does outweigh security issues for law enforcement organizations. Utilizing blue boxes and bellys would give added security while still maintaining a consistency among departments. In actual prisoner transportation then there is also the added security of, as my dad who is a retired police officer always pointed out to me when I was growing up and practicing escapes using his cuffs, all of the officers with guns surrounding you and in the guard towers! That generally is a good deterrent for attempting escape from their cuffs. Smile

So that does raise a good point. Who is utilizing some of the maximum security cuffs like the Peerless 710's and such? As Steve pointed out, if the US Marshall's are using standard cuffs and accessories, who then are buying the "high security" models aside from us? Smile
Chance
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I would be EXTREEMLY interested in hearing the experts opinions about this page: http://www.cuff24.com/

For my money, these seem to be the most difficult and diabolical pieces I have ever seen. Bring lunch, you'll be there a while!

Chance
pastorclyde
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Roslyn,

I have defeated the Hiatt HSS9 but the cuffs were in front. I was able to "rake" them with my toes. Try it!

Clyde
Wolflock
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Oh Man!!! Chance. I agree, Some of those Cuffs Look Wicked.
Wolflock
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Allan Given
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Those are some pretty interesting looking designs...but hey, I love a challenge! Has anyone ever worked with any of them? What types of locks are they using?

Allan
Dr_Stephen_Midnight
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I'ne seen this site before.
Some of them appear to be padlockable.

Steve
Dr. Lao: "Do you know what wisdom is?"
Mike: "No."
Dr. Lao: "Wise answer."
The Donster
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Clyde that has to be a site to see.
pastorclyde
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Don,

Well, as odd as it may sound, you will have the opportunity. As I redo my website Im going to have "How To Defeat Cuffs" and a video for each style of cuffs and means of defeating each; including picking high security locks with my toes. Its odd but not as tough as it sounds. Besides, don't all pastors sit around no their days off picking handcuffs with their feet? Smile

Clyde
Chance
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Clyde,

Your new web site sounds amazing. Can't wait to see the thing in action.

But what I'm most curious about is: how many picks, etc., do you hide inside your Bible (or even your clerical robes if you wear any?) Smile

Chance
The Donster
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Clyde I'm not Sure. but there was a shooting at a church meeting here just yesterday. we were kidding around and were saying the sermon must of went longer then expected if this continues maybe another thing would be to do is get a bulletproof vest or a metal detector. its a shame that this had to happen.
Wolflock
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That is sad to hear Don. I don't like what this world is coming to.
Clyde, Deffinately cant wait to see your site. Keep us updated.
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pastorclyde
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Chance, hehehe yes, the little white tab on the front of the neck is actually shimming material in case of emergency! Smile

Seriously though, I actually take two toolboxes with me into the bag or whatever, that affords me all the options I need for pretty much any cuff in the world.

Don, that was a sad situation... a very troubled person with all the wrong answers.

Clyde
The Donster
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Clyde your Correct as Always. and people are driving by his house now to see it. plus there is a Memorial by the Hotel. its good to know that people Care about the ones that Died.
Roslyn
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Hi, having a little trouble with the feet method of opening the cuffs Clyde mentions. My rake keeps bending and almost snapped at one point. Any tips?

Ros
Chance
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Ros asked:
"Hi, having a little trouble with the feet method of opening the cuffs Clyde mentions. My rake keeps bending and almost snapped at one point. Any tips?"

Chance answers:
Maybe try using the other foot? Smile
pastorclyde
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Ros, use your toes to hold the pick or tension tool. Then move the cuffs. Your toes will take up any excess force.

Clyde
Roslyn
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Okie dokes. I'll give it a go.

Ros
handsfree
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Quote:
On 2005-03-10 13:49, Chance wrote:
I would be EXTREEMLY interested in hearing the experts opinions about this page: http://www.cuff24.com/

For my money, these seem to be the most difficult and diabolical pieces I have ever seen. Bring lunch, you'll be there a while!

Chance


Looks like Orchid's stuff.
pastorclyde
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Though my new website isn't finished, I opened access to some of the "Compromising Cuffs" videos... including compromising the Clejuso 15s! Smile Check it out. You'll need clearence for the EA area. Access the videos by going to the Products page and then the EA area. Oh yea, the "Rapping Peerless 700s" is up too.

Ros, I'll get to the HSS9s too. Smile

Clyde
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