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Gary Kruse Regular user Colorado Springs 146 Posts |
I'm very pleased with how entertaining some of the memorized deck effects can be. However, although it hasn't happened yet, I always wonder if someone is going to blurt out: "That deck must be marked." Many of the generic mem deck routines could be done with a marked deck and I am surprised that I haven't gotten that response yet. Any thoughts?
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Jay Elf Elite user 466 Posts |
Quote:
It hasn't happened yet. Good. Quote:
Many of the generic mem deck routines could be done with a marked deck. No. |
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Patrick Differ Inner circle 1540 Posts |
"Ahh...the laymen and their oblong rationalizations. Nip it in the bud. Script. Initialize the train of thought." Subtle.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy; The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I've a many curious things to show when you are there. Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair -can ne'er come down again. |
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Silly Walter the Polar Bear Special user 506 Posts |
If that does happen, just pull out "Color Monte" and the problem is solved.
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
"Let me shuffle the deck" would be blurt out of the audience in my case.
Hideo Kato |
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Scott Cram Inner circle 2678 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-05-14 23:05, Gary Kruse wrote: Sure, they could be done with a marked deck. That is, as long as the deck is the Deland Dollar Deck in Si Stebbins order, which lets you know where every card in the deck is! Besides, according to Euan over at the Magic Den, memorized decks have lots of fatal flaws! |
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Karl Miller Elite user 494 Posts |
Well, Jay Elf above pretty much summed up what I was going to say. You absolutely can not duplicate most mem-deck effects with a marked deck. Take Simon Aronson's work with the mem-deck, for example. There is no way you could duplicate "Everybody's Lazy" or his version of the "Birthday Book" with a marked deck. If people are accusing you of using a marked deck, there is something that needs to be fixed.
A big thank you to Scott for that link. I havn't laughed that hard in a long time. I really hope nobody actually agrees with those child-like reasons that the mem-deck is "stupid". Just watch Mike Close, Juan Tamariz, Eric Mead, or Simon Aronson jazz with a mem-deck sometime. 'Nuff said. |
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NoahJLevine Regular user 142 Posts |
I've always confronted this head on. Now I script against it. The other thing that's good to do, if someone does bring it up, is to show them the flip book test of a deck of cards. Not only does this prove that you're not using a marked deck, it also makes you seem like a nice guy.
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LR2 Regular user Humble, Texas 116 Posts |
Couldn't one just use a deck with blank backs. That way they can prove that the deck is not marked. I know this would be very troublesome and the cards would look weird.
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Jake Austin Loyal user Colorado Springs 237 Posts |
Being the procrastinator that I am I wouldn't worry about it until it happened.
If it were to happen, I'd probably respond with a smile and say "You caught me. But, aren't these the most subtly marked cards you've ever seen? Then I'd let them have the deck so they could find the marks. If they come to me later asking about the marks, I'll say "Go watch the movie Shade for a clue" If they come back to me again I'd suggest" Just let your eyes go out of focus a bit. It's like those magic eye picture things where the picture appears out of a bunch of squiggly lines." Or, I suppose I could just educate them on spotting marked decks using the riffle method. But that's not half as much fun. Jake
S.A.M Assembly 170, Colorado Springs
170sam.org |
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Gary Kruse Regular user Colorado Springs 146 Posts |
Jake,
It's obvious that you are a great entertainer who thinks quick on his feet! |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
While some memorized deck effects could not be duplicated with a marked deck, many COULD, like Richard Osterlind's blackjack routine, and my 3 rows of 7. When I used 3 rows of 7 as part of my Castle audition, I did worry about the whole "marked deck" thing, because I think that, in agreement with the original poster, some mem deck work DOES come heads-up against the "too perfect" theory. However, marked deck questions may be more of an issue when performing for magicians than when performing for a lay audience. Having said all THAT, I *love* the idea of using a blank backed mem deck.
Quote: On 2005-05-15 01:58, LR2 wrote:
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Gary Kruse Regular user Colorado Springs 146 Posts |
Lobowolf,
Thanks for the insights. Someone above didn't want to acknowledge that many mem deck effects could be achieved with a marked deck. Obviously, many can't, but there are some effects that can be accomplished both ways. I appreciate your possible solution as well as Jake's creative reactions. Either way, people leave being entertained. Gary |
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NoahJLevine Regular user 142 Posts |
LR2, I'm begging you not to use a blank backed deck. There is no other place in the world to buy a blank backed deck of cards than a magic shop. If you used a regular deck, a few people will think it's a trick deck ( that's if you don't eliminate that solution). If you use a blank backed deck, EVERYBODY will think it's a trick deck.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
In fact, Simon Aronson mentions Gary's very point in one of his books--that the only solution left for some of his effects, in the intelligent layperson's mind, is that the deck must be marked.
Aronson agrees that that "solution" must be erased somehow. He suggests, for example, turning one's back when a card is selected. Giving away a deck is another possible way to dispel the idea of a marked deck. Jack Shalom
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Magicmike1949 Special user 643 Posts |
I have been known to offer $100 to any spectator who can find anything suspicious about my deck. Since there are no marks, I have nothing to fear. Not only have I never lost the hundred, this offer never fails to shut up the doubters.
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Karl Miller Elite user 494 Posts |
Gary:
I never said that you couldn't duplicate some mem-deck effects with a marked deck. What I was getting at was that you need to dispel the marked deck theory (as Jack mentioned above). Simon does in fact talk about that notion in his books, and his routines are a great example of dispelling the marked deck theory. Michael Close has some nice thoughts on this as well. As for duplicating the Osterlind effects with a marked deck, yes, you absolutely can duplicate some of them with a marked deck, but his system is not a mem-deck unless you have the stack memorized COLD (i.e., no calculations). -Karl |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Yes, I wasn't referencing the Osterlind system, but rather those effects of his which can be duplicated with a mem-deck.
Quote: On 2005-05-15 18:14, Karl Miller wrote:
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
Gary,
Gary, you are correct in thinking that an incorrectly constructed memdeck routine might make the audience think that a marked deck is in use, but this can be overcome by using your head. Also, you are correct in saying that some generic memdeck routines could be duplicated with a marked deck. This is a strong argument not to use such routines! If, after a demonstration of memorized deck work, your audience thinks you're using marked cards, you've done sonemthing terribly wrong. Take a close look at your routine and fix it. For starters, you could: 1. Use proper attention management so that the audience doesn't believe that you look at the backs of the cards. (Easy to say, somewhat harder to do!) 2. Use the technique in Juan Tamariz's The Magic Way when you are constructing your routine. Properly used, this method will eliminate EVERY SINGLE ANSWER that a spectator could devise, even including ideas that you might not have thought of before. 3. Give the cards away at the end of the show. (I use this idea in EVERY formal show that I do.) Hideo San: Prior to my memorized deck routine, I let the spectators shuffle the cards. I do a few tricks in which the cards continue to mixed. My routine also lets me switch in my memorized deck indetectibly. If audience members have already shuffled the deck and seen the cards mixed, the audience is less likely to suspect that anything is amiss -- and that's when you can really do damage... -Barry
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
If you use a stack which can easily be arranged from new deck order, this isn't a problem in the least. I use an idea I got from Harry Lorayne.
When I am performing close up magic for a fee, I ask the host to purchase two red and two blue Bicycle decks, and to bring them, unopened, to the show for me to use. I further explain that I will be giving the decks out as gifts to audience members. I even offeer to have the cost deducted from my fee. When I arrive and am introduced, very often (with no prodding from me) the host/hostess will mention that he/she purchased the decks and that they arrived unopened and I am receiving them just then. Even without this "announcement" people see her giving me the decks. And anyone who doesn't and accuses me of using trick decks? I simply explain that our host purchased them and brought them for me to use. Either the people around or the host himself can verify that this is true. Once that's established, there is NEVER ANY question at all about "trick decks." Which makes it that much more wonderfully effective when I ring in a few secret somethings!
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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