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jwebyra Regular user New Jersey 140 Posts |
Mr. Angello,
I remember when Tony Spina ran Tannens. He would always help me and show me the latest whenever I saw him. I had no problem not spending a dime yesterday. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-08 12:45, Al Angello wrote: I haven't thought of Tannen's as one of the "big guys" since Tony left. Their service is basically nonexistent. I'll give you an example of how bad they really are. I ordered a set of those ridiculous Garcia cups from them a little over a year ago. The listing on their web site stated that the cups came with a bag and a book on the cups and balls. They came with neither. So I called them and mentioned this. The fellow who took the order said, "Oh, yeah. They don't come with bags any more." "What about the book?" "It's just the Tom Osborne book. Do you still want it?" "Yes, I paid for it didn't I?" They are as bad as the other "don't give a ***" bricks and mortar dealers that have given bricks and mortar dealers a bad name.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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jwebyra Regular user New Jersey 140 Posts |
I went to Martinka Magic the other day. The stor is located in the way back around the corner of a strip mall and there were people coming in to the store. The owner was nice as he talked to everyone and even demoed. Compared to the store in New York City which has been mentioned by myself and others on this thread, this is how a magic shop be. I wish him the best of luck and will be shopping there from now on.
Ron |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I've dealt with Martinka's on line and via telephone since Ted Bogusta took it over. He is acutely aware of the position the shop has historically. He is a very knowledgable guy, and he understands how to treat his customers.
After the last auction, he brought my winnings to me at the collector's weekend in DC. He didn't have to do that. It was more convenient for me, and he was going to be there, anyway, but he could have demanded to mail the pieces I won. You can bet that if I ever get to New Jersey, that will be one of the first places I visit. I doubt that I would go into NYC just to visit Tannen's. Posted: Apr 29, 2006 2:47pm ------------------------------------------- Funny thing about this thread, how it keeps coming back to the top. I just got off the phone from a conversation with a fellow who works at what used to be one of the best magic shops in the country, until the owner passed away, about a year ago. Now they are running with a skeleton crew, and they really aren't taking care of business. I called to find out if they had any of a certain item I had manufactured in stock. Before I could finish the sentence, the fellow who answered the phone said, "I already told ___ about that. He is going to get back to you." I said, "No, I'm calling for an entirely different reason. I want to purchase one if you still have them in stock." "I don't know if we do. ____ will get back to you. I'm with a customer right now." Boy! That steams me. I know they need to take care of their customers. But I'm one, too. They have no idea how much I might spend in one phone call. There is no call for rudeness. And there is no call for interrupting people when they have a legitimate request. I don't know why I should expect ____ to call me back, anyway. He didn't when I called the first time, over a MONTH ago. I hope someone buys this shop and moves it to a better location.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Marvello Inner circle It's amazing how little I can say in 1612 Posts |
I was lucky enough to grow up in a town that had 2 magic stores: one run by Hank Moorehouse, and the other was run by Dennis Loomis (sadly both are closed now). I also lived with a couple hour drive of Abbott's Magic, and Magic Inc.. I would have lost out on meeting Hank & Dennis and Karrel Fox and Jay Marshall if it had not been for B&M stores. I find it sad that Abbott's is a mere shadow of it's former self, but it is still fun to visit. I buy things online because it is easier these days, but I really miss going to B&M shops.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
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Jimmy Joza Special user New York City 760 Posts |
Yes, things have changed a great deal at Tannen's. It saddens me to hear of others' experiences there. While I generally receive good treatment when I have gone, it just doesn't feel the same since Tony left. The new owner, Steve Brown, is helpful. However, the last time I was there was probably over six months ago.
Now, Fantasma Magic has opened up shop one block away on 33rd Street, right off the corner of 7th Avenue. It looks great! Staff there is very attentive and I can see this attracting many tourists interested in magic. It happened that Mr. David Roth himself was there and he demonstrated a chop cup routine to me using the Fantasma Buddha Chop Cup. What a treat! Now, I don't think they will stocked like Tannen's or other long established magic stores but it certainly is a refreshing addition. They will also have lectures on the last Thursday of each month --- first lecture in May will be by David Roth. By the way, if you stop by make sure you ask to see Houdini escape from his straightjacket. Jimmy
"Those who simply walk in others' tracks leave no footprints."
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Jimmy
I'm going to Monday Night Magic May 15th, and I'll check Fantasma Magic out, of course if it's a sunny day my wife will insist on central park instead. Thanks for the tip. HAVE FUN Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Jimmy Joza Special user New York City 760 Posts |
Enjoy, Al! I may be going tomorrow --- I've never seen Patrick Page live.
Jimmy P.S. I just noticed the PM about Billy McComb having died about an hour ago. Truly a loss. It was really a pleasure having seen him do an impromptu act at a magic shop in Queens when he visited there a few months ago. Thank you, Billy, for all that you have offered to the magic community!
"Those who simply walk in others' tracks leave no footprints."
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-18 02:49, Marshall Thornside wrote: Caring people exist online as well. As the proprietor of a mail order magic business, I get lots of inquiries about products and I try hard to give thoughtful answers based on being a professional magician since 1970. Brick and mortar stores are under siege in many industries... not just magic. I was an English major in college and continue to be an avid reader. I buy lots of books and used to browse in brick and mortar bookstores a couple of times a week. But, I can find books much easier online, and Amazon has them delivered to my door in a few days. No $$$$ spent on gas, no looking for a parking place, no wasted trips to discover that the book I am seeking is not in stock, etc. The world is changing. Brick and mortar magic shops have a lot of overhead. But the good ones are wonderful places and I have so many fond memories of time spent with Roy Kissell at Fox Fun n Magic in Detroit, with Neil Foster and Duke Stern at Abbotts, and with Jay Marshall and the gang at Magic, Inc. in Chicago. Earlier in this thread it was suggested that I ran a magic shop in Ann Arbor. And that Hank Morehouse ran a competing one. Just to set the record straight: I did not ever have a magic shop in Ann Arbor. The confusion comes from the fact that I worked for Hank and for a time was the Saturday Counter Demonstrator. But it was Hank's shop. Hank and I took his "shop" on the road to magic conventions as well. Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
I'm proud to be an on-liner, not only for my magic supplies, but over half of my retail purchases. I read that on-line stores (many of them retailers) showed an 80% increase in internet sales last year. The customer wasn't bothered if they paid sales tax at the point of sale.
I prefer dealer showrooms and lecture materials over the magic shop, which seem more inclined to sell gags and masks these days (in my area).
POOF!
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jwebyra Regular user New Jersey 140 Posts |
Mr. Joza
Do you have an address for Fantasma Magic. I plan on being in Mid-Town either on Wednesday or Thrusday. Thank you, Ron |
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Vater Araignee Regular user MI 172 Posts |
I love B&M shops but I have this bad habit of purchasing things that I can make cheaper, and considering I am an avid DIYer that should be a testament to what a physical location means to me.
I also got my first deck of tigers for $5.00, Ellusionist cost $6.99 + $3.95. What a rip off I know for a fact that it costs $1.11 to send by US mail but hey ya gotta maximize your profits even if it means making a profit on shipping, right? B&M is the best choice unless you can only find an item on line. Just my opinion.
"Good enough never is." - Vater Araignee
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
You would have a fair argument if all that Ellusionist did was slap a mailing label on the card case and put a stamp on it. But the envelopes and packing cost money. So does the labor to label and sort everything.
I used to complain about the postage people charged on items. Then I started mailing things out. It costs a lot more than you would think to mail something like a deck of cards, a set of cups, even a baseball. I'm not a big fan of Ellusionist. I am even less of a fan of Black Tiger Decks. But in all fairness, I have to say that you knew what the postage was before you ordered them. And you could have gotten the postage down to $1.32 per deck, if you had ordered three decks. Also, the more of these you order, the less they cost you. Since you got these at a discount, whoever you got them from must have ordered them from Ellusionist in the first place, because they are the sole source of the cards. They have an exclusive from USPCCo. Same is true for the strange Tally-Ho cards, as well. Your Brick and Mortar dealer must have ordered a LOT of these to get a price that would allow him to sell them to you so cheaply and still make a profit. Treasure him. He may not be around much longer. See, here's the thing most people miss out on. No matter how much a dealer loves magic, he can't afford to keep his doors open if nobody buys from him. You can't eat your stock. You do have to make enough of a profit to keep the lights on. I'm not saying that you should slavishly walk into your dealer's and buy every chunk of crud that he pushes across the counter top. What I am saying is that when you find a dealer who does right by you, take the time to help him stay in business. Send your friends over. Buy your ropes, accessories, etc. from him, not on line. It will pay off in the long run. I can't tell you how many times I have set out for a gig that I realized I would need to run by the magic shop and pick up some rope or some other item that you can't get in a hardware store. It happens may be once or twice a year, but when it does, I'm thankful that I have someone to go to.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Marvello Inner circle It's amazing how little I can say in 1612 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-06-30 22:41, cgscpa wrote: When you go there, be sure to ask him about the wide selection of ripoff magic effects that he sells, such as the "APPEARING 8' LADDER FROM TOOLBOX" (and other appearing poles), "FLOATING MATCH ON CARD," http://www.magicunlimited.com/NewvsOriginal.htm Posted: May 1, 2006 2:21pm ------------------------------------------- Quote: You are correct, of course- that was my confusion. I was not suggesting you were competing with Hank at all either - I do remember bugging you on many saturdays at Hank's shop. I was confusing the 2nd shop with Daryl Hurst's small shop.
On 2006-05-01 07:27, Dennis Loomis wrote: My memory aint what it used to be... or is it? I forget.
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
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Vater Araignee Regular user MI 172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-05-01 13:52, Bill Palmer wrote: A well thought out argument Mr. Palmer but I would like to point out that I have seen a padded envelop deal that ends up breaking down to $0.03 per envelope and considering Ellusionist can obviously afford the cost of 10,000 decks certainly this is not out of reach. Now assuming that they are using the standard mark up of 100% on their bulk orders that would mean that the 200% markup on a single deck would make it so that they could offer a better shipping deal but because of the exclusivity that you mentioned, simply put "They don't have to." Soon I will be ordering the CAJ deck It only has a $1.50 shipping price, then you can look at Penguin Magic with free shipping. Now I know that PM is much bigger than E but when you look at it or the low cost of the CAJ, it is very difficult not to feel ripped off.
"Good enough never is." - Vater Araignee
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Vater, who at Ellusionist is going to package that deck for you? Who drives to the Post Office? Who pays for his gas? Who purchases packing supplies? Better yet, what employees do they have who work for nothing? And what landlord doesn't ask for rent each month? Utilities? Shall I go on?
You have to factor in all the variables. If Penguin Magic ships for free, they have to make it up somewhere else. Remember TANSTAAFL (There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch)It just means they have lower overhead than E. A 100% markup on a $3 item means they only made $3 on the sale before expenses. You have to push a LOT of merchandise to make ends meet with an income of only $3 per item.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I've never seen padded envelopes quite that cheap. If you have a legitimate source for them, let me know.
Ellusionist actually pays a lot less than 50% off retail for their cards. That's the only way they can afford to wholesale them to other people. The "standard" 50% discount is not consistent all of the time. Jobbers want a bigger discount than 50% and traditionally offer a discount closer to 40%. And that depends entirely upon how many units you are ordering. There is also a tremendous cost outlay when trying out a new deck. When Ellusionist ordered their first Black Tiger decks a couple of years ago, they had no idea whether they would be successful or not. They took a big risk, and it worked. Penguin operates on a much lower margin of profit than Ellusionist. I'm know more about this than I can say here, but I know that they have been bailed out a couple of times. You can't provide products for your customers without making a profit. They may save on various aspects of their postage -- big shippers get better prices on postage than normal people. They may save by contracting some of their products themselves, but in the long run, they must have products that they charge more than the normal markup on in order to support their loss leaders. Go to the Penguin site and look at the prices for some of the staple items -- Bicycle Rider Backs, Bees, etc. Now everyone here who knows about Costco or Sam's Club knows that they can get Bikes for about $13.50 a dozen decks. So why pay almost $3.00 for them on line? It makes no sense. Have you ever tried to hold an intelligent conversation about any products with an ordertaker at Penguin? You should. It will be educational. Call them and ask "That rising card you are selling -- does it work like a Devano?" See what happens.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Vater Araignee Regular user MI 172 Posts |
Ok I can admit when I'm beaten or stomped as it seems, but that doesn't mean "I" feel any less taken.
Especially considering when I spend $130 to make my self 6 all of a kind decks I'll sell what I wont use (first come first served) for $8.00 and zero shipping.
"Good enough never is." - Vater Araignee
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cajmagic Loyal user Long Beach, California 235 Posts |
Re: Shipping
It is though sending things through the mail - Not just from a cost standpoint. Many don't realive how hard it is to pack a deck so it doesn't get crushed. or just the cost by weight (39c plus 24c per added ounce) And that includes the cost of the envelope which for a deck of cards is between 15c to as much as $1.75 Re: Brick and Mortar If they all disappear - there will be few new magicians. The store is not there for us - it is there for the novice - who could become a magician. Has anyone been to Vagas and their Magic Store (Forget the name) - in the Casinos they perform then sell tricks (very overpriced but I am sure their overhead is $$$$. This is the purpose of Brick and Mortar. As an aside I am a stamp collector also - Few stamp stores remain today - went through the same thing. The goal of a stamp collector was to RETIRE to a stamp store and sell their collection. I think the same is true for old magicians.
Caj Brejtfus
CajMagic and the CAJ Deck of Magic Gaff Cards :BIKES: |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Interesting thread from the point of view of the magician mostly, not the dealer. The thing is that magic shops the way they used to be are closing and we seem to lose more every year.
Why? Because they do not have enough sales to support the business as a business. And that line is speaking from my own personal experience an being involved in my Dads magic shop. The problem with magic and the selling of magic is that to support a business you have to be able to hear that cash register ring. The good part of magic shops is that they can end up being a social gathering for magicians and other entertainers to meet. The bad thing is that when the social gathering gets in the way of the cash register ringing that is one of the problems. Ask most dealers and they will say that a magician spends the most on magic their first two years. Then after that they don't spend that much. I was in my Dads magic shop for many lectures and had the room filled with magicians and they did not buy one thing from the magic shop - only stuff from the lecture. Our shop was open for about 8 years and we never did mail order. In fact I was the one that started to do mail order after my Dad had a stroke. We would get people that would call the shop and ask questions. That is fine but if we had a customer in the shop that we were demonstrating magic to. That shop customer came first. Why? because at times when it was slow - they may have been the ONLY customer that day and we would serve them and let the phone ring! In the shop was a table where magicians would sit and visit with my Dad and his friends. Most of the friends did not buy that much. In fact they used to go up to the hot dog place a few doors up the block and buy hot dogs and other food and then eat it in my Dads store. One day my Dad was cleaning up after them after he closed and said, "You know I should be selling food instead of magic".
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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