Ray, there is a ferrous (shimmed) shell, Mint Condition, that you can find occasionally. Or you could get some shimming and shim your own. As for magnetic, I don't think I've ever heard of one. Doesn't mean they don't exist, though... I am not sure if space would allow for it.

In the interest of Historical accuracy, the expanded shell is considered an invention of Connie Haden and was first released in 1960.

You are correct... http://daytonamagic.net/customer/index.c......tId=2389 I met Connie years ago here in Daytona Bch.

<<<<KRaZy4kardz>>>>

While one might find an unexpanded [ less distorted, one might eventually prefer expanded ones. I'm one example. I have a set of unexpanded [ with a matching half. They look quit alike and the size of the [ is exaclty as a half dollar.

But sooner or later you'll notice it is not enough since you can only continue to nest and un-nest the same coin, which simply cannot be done smoothly for some routines. If you think you can buy 4 sets and use all those "smaller" halves, think again. It is not worthy to do so. And the thing is the coin "insert" is actally smaller than the shell, so the size difference problem remains.

I'd strongly suggest an e[ if you want to use your [ for a couple of routines. It's not that obvious if you buy a shell from a good producer, or even better if you have it custom made by some craftsmen. I recently saw a barber e[ and I can't tell the difference with normal barbers. Remember you are not asking the audience to examine the coins and ask "do you notice there is a small size difference?"

If you have seen Dean's Set, you will change your opinion on unexpanded [

O thanks. this set is news to me. will take a look at it later on.

but for now... my vote is still on e[ because of it's versatility.

As CoinMan21 points out, there are unexpanded ]s on the market that come with multiple/dentical "insert" coins. Dean's set is great.

I meant "identical," not "dentical" (whatever that is, maybe a coin that you bite? )

Howdy,I have a Kuepper's Expanded Toonie Shell,which is not bad,but ever since a spectator pointed out that one coin looks bigger,I always see the expanded as apparantly larger.

Now with the coins always slightly in motion will help this weak point, I was wondering are the unexpanded more deceptive as in relation to the size discreptancy?

That may be an artifact of the Toonies two-metal design, that makes it more obvious. I don't notice a difference with expanded half shells

Not necessarily. I have owned both, and gravitated to expanded. The reasons given in favor of un-ex['s appeal mainly to the user. In competent hands, spectators will never know the difference, and expanded shells are significantly less expensive. True, the fit is custom made on an unexpanded set, but again, in competent hands this means nothing very little. I know many who have easily found 'perfect fit' ungaffed coins to fit their exp. shell.

If you lose, or damage an unexpanded coin, it is must more costly and time-consuming to replace.

One plus for unexpanded shells is the new milling on the edges, which provides easier grip for those whose hands are too dry, etc... to classic palm well.

Whatever you choose, enjoy!

I have both the expanded and unexpanded shells and I prefer the unexpanded because of how completely it covers the coin. Also I like how it looks when flat on the table, it is the same thickness as the rest of the coins.

Happy New Year!!!

Walking Bob in Iowa

Also I have a Dean's set and when you see this set you will see a major difference in expanded and unexpanded!!!

Walking Bob

I'm of the opinion that I prefer expanded shells, for many of the above stated reasons, but mainly because I can afford them. I'm sure that a Dean's set is better in fit and quality and precision, but I can do most if not ALL of the same routines with an expanded shell and 4 regular coins as I could with a Dean's set whith enough money left over to buy some great videos and books to teach me these routines. With a good expanded shell and 4 coins I've carefully matched to it I doubt any spectator (or magician for that matter) could tell me if I was using a Dean's set or Expanded set. You see during any routine I would do the shell is not left still next to any other coin for any real amount of time for there to be any comparison of size. The coins in a routine are usually in motion for the most part and not just set on the table for comparisons, even with a coin matrix the shell is usually only next to another coin for a second or two before it is covered and "teleported" to a new location.

Now this is only my opinion and if anyone thinks that I would change my opinion completely if only I'd use a Dean's set, well feel free to send me a Dean's set to prove me wrong otherwise I'll be using expanded sets until I get that retirement check that the Powerball people are going to send me.

If you can afford it and you want the very best then by all means check out the custom sets like the Dean's set, I'm sure you won't be disappointed. the custom coin guys do GREAT WORK and I hope my opinion doesn't come across in any negative way towards them, I just feel the custom coins are a magician's luxury but not a necessity.

Gerald

I prefer the unexpanded set mainly for the coverage that the shell provides, and the new milled edges. But I didn't go out of my way to buy this set, I just found a used Barber Deans set on the Café.

Both styles are great.

But that is a good point, if I lost one of the extra coins, it would be expensive to replace.


But of course, no matter what style you buy, the shell will always look a little larger.

I prefer the unexpanded set mainly for the coverage that the shell provides, and the new milled edges. But I didn't go out of my way to buy this set, I just found a used Barber Deans set on the Café.

Both styles are great.

But that is a good point, if I lost one of the extra coins, it would be expensive to replace.


But of course, no matter what style you buy, the shell will always look a little larger.

When you are ready, you might want to look into a custom T.U.C. or a Lassen TT/Schoolcraft 3CM.

Regards,

Alan

I have a few sets of coins with a ]. I have a Deans Set of Peace dollars from Jamie Schoolcraft, I have an unexpanded set of Morgan dollars from Roy Kueppers and I have an expanded Peace dollar ] from Johnson. When it first arrived, I was pleasantly surprised by the Johnson ]. It's good quality, not much rocking/movement and covers a regular Peace dollar by about 2/3 of the coin. Not perfect to close scrutiny or when performing in front of other magicians or people "in the know" about the utility device. I added a Teflon disc to the inside to cut down on noise; which helps. The ] then sits higher on the coin, of course; but the lack of noise is a fair trade-off. The distortion on the Johnson is minimal and certainly less than I expected, having seen some other expanded ]s. But in comparing it side-by-side to another coin, you can see the expansion distortion; but, again, it's less than you would expect if you've inspected cheaper ]s. My Johnson ] is primarily for practice purposes and as an emergency backup, should something happen to one of my unexpanded sets that requires me to have to replace one of the coins.

The Roy Kueppers unexpanded set is very nice. Recently, I was comparing it to a friend's Lassen set, and it is my opinion that it actually looks better and covers the reduced and re-milled coins by a much greater fraction. Of course, I may have been looking at an expanded Lassen ] and not an 'unexpanded' one. Honestly, as I write this, I'm not sure. But the Kueppers set is a beautiful set of well-made/milled coins and my second favorite to work with. In fact, I carry this set everywhere, perform with it almost daily and am confident in performing with it in any environment and am proud to recommend it to other magicians.

Then there's my Schoolcraft Deans Set. Consisting of an unexpanded ] and four reduced and re-milled coins, it is nothing less than a work of art. To the naked eye of someone who does not know they're looking at a coin and a ], it is virtually impossible to identify the coin with the ]. The Schoolcraft set is my favorite set to work with. Beautifully and artfully made and the coins work in concert with the ] like a dream. This is my "executive" set, in that I use it often, but do not use my Schoolcraft set daily. This is the first expensive set I ever purchased; which I finally purchased as an investment after years of wanting one and not wanting, or able, to spend the money. I highly recommend a Schoolcraft set, (Dean's Set, if you can swing it), for all my professional magician colleagues. They are worth the INVESTMENT. In my opinion, they are the absolute best on the market.

There are noticeable differences between an expanded ] and an unexpanded ] with reduced and re-milled coins. Noticeable differences in look, feel, sound, palming and overall use. In all of these areas, I find the unexpanded sets to be superior. It's obviously a matter of personal preference and, but I prefer the unexpanded ] to an expanded one; even if the expanded one is of good quality. ...Just my personal choice; but I thought I'd share it here. Take it for what it's worth - it's just my viewpoint based on the sets I have and use.

Ok I've only got one thing to say to Bendy's review and opinions... AWESOME!!! As I'm sure most here have read my opinions on the matter of expanded vs. unexpanded, I still stand by Some of my points but Bendy's review has me really wanting to try a Dean's Set Badly. That was a very thorough, informative, and persuasive opinion and I thank you for giving me a little incite with direct comparisons and no-nonsense descriptions of all aspects of the difference between the sets.

I'm speechless....

Gerald

Question about Schoolcraft's Dean's Sets: Originally they were advertised as the shell being not only for the milled matching coins that come with it, but also that the "Dean's Set Flippers" fit perfectly within the shell. While the Dean's Sets are still sold I haven't seen any Dean's Set Flippers for a long time. Are they still sold? And if not then of what benefit is the Deans Set over the regular unexpanded set?

Thanks!

Jim