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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » If right you win, if wrong you lose... » » Fast and Loose (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TheAmbitiousCard
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Eternal Order
Northern California
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I just watched the SFS "Fast and Loose" DVD.
It is awesome. If you've ever had any interest in Fast and Loose,
that is THE DVD to get. If you have questions, ask.

I had previously gotten the "Chain Gang" video but is nice but this is far superior.
After watching the Chain Gang, I was still left feeling like the spectator would end up thinking the trick was a no-win proposition. End of entertainment! Perhaps the details are there but they did not come thru to me convincingly enough.
The SFS Fast and Loose provides spactacular "proofs" the whole way
to show that it's a 50-50 proposition and also teaches way to let you
control whether someone wins or looses each time, regardless of how the chain
is thrown or which opening the specky chooses.

Also included is Chef Anton demo'ing the SFS technique which allows the chain
to be thrown exactly the same way 100% of the time, yet you have 4 possible outcomes.

One of the best , most complete, and thorough DVDs I've seen.

I also got the nickel chain and the chain knot to complete the package.
The chain is nice and heavy, long but not too long. The knot provides a nice visual gag and Chef Anton demo's how to put the knot in and allow it to slide off the
chain by itself and drop off the end.

I could not be happier with this combo.
This is not a commercial message. Just a happy customer spewing spew!
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Bill Palmer
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Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
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There is stuff on this DVD that is not found anywhere else, period.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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Steve V
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Northern California
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There is material on the dvd not found in the notes?
Steve V
mrunge
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Charleston, SC
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I have the notes, but still had questions after reading them. After getting the DVD, any question I might have had were totally answered. As Frank and Bill mentioned, there is NOTHING left out of the DVD. Get it...you won't be disappointed! Mark.
Dave V
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Las Vegas, NV
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The information is about the same. The difference is that you get to see the moves in action. Their new methods just don't translate as well on paper as they do on video. I refer to them both; the notes for the layout and the video for the timing of the laydown.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
BroDavid
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I have had Chain Gang for a long time, and have performed it a lot in a variety of venues. But as Frank said, it is hard to keep it from being an obvious "you lose" scenario based on what is taught there. No thtat it is bad, but it is taught with a purpose that fit Marc DeSousa, and doesn't fit me - or apparently fit frank. I do like the big chain I got with it. In fact, that chain is what is around my neck in my Avatar.

I had been thinking a lot about the SFS DVD, so maybe I should go for it after all.

Thanks for the info Frank.

BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
TheAmbitiousCard
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I need to watch Chain Gang again to see if I missed anything.
The historical perspective was better in the chain gang video and there was more variety in the throws but a crowd is not going to gather for a history class. they will gather if they think they have a 50-50 proposition and YOU are using psychology to win.

the 3 loop pattern is a nice to have, as is the in the air do-dah, but to me it muddies the waters.

the spectator needs something that is absolutely, 100%, crystal clear.
In real life, if the operator does the hourglass pattern and you finally catch on enough to bet, and then they switch to the 3-loop pattern, I see a lot of people taking their chips off the table. That, to me, translates to a reduction in interest.

It must be fine for Mark and others, as David states, but I need simple.
*wipes nose with sleeve*


p.s. what is missing, if I may say so.... well, .... may I? Oh. Thanks!!!
Are false "tells" that will get a person to bet. LIke in the shell game.
The "false switch", etc. I want someone to follow, follow, follow, until they know what is happening. I guess I'm looking for "feints" that would falsely indicate where the "fast" side is. I did not see that on any of the DVDs.

Is this where I'm supposed to quickly come up with something, tell everybody, "It's original with me", and start lecturing? Please? Can I? Can I?


Posted: Oct 17, 2005 2:08pm
I watched the chain gang video (just performance) and there are no proofs, really at all.

I did like where he allowed the spectator to choose either fast or loose. I think that is an important and absolutely necessary phase of the routine.

Speaking of feints:
An obvious feint, is just in throwing the chain left or right.
But I want more.
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drwilson
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This is a really great value. I like the video because it lets you pick up on the rhythm of the throws and the routine. The only thing that you need that's not in the video or notes is a few hours of working with an audience to prove the value of this material.

Yours,

Paul
BroDavid
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I often do the "in the hands handling" for throwing the loop, (having it hold or not) using a much smaller chain resulting in the typical figure 8 on the edge of a table, or on a book, or where ever. The move is covered by the back of my hand towards the spec, and I make the throw in the palm of my hand.

So Frank, are you saying the SFS Fast and Loose dvd doesn't give you what you were looking for? Or did you say it is just the Chain Gang that doesn't?

Thanks

BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
Dave V
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Quote:
On 2005-10-17 14:08, Frank Starsini wrote:
Speaking of feints:
An obvious feint, is just in throwing the chain left or right.
But I want more.


There are two other verbal feints in Chef Anton's routine. Unless you're doing this for hours on end, that combined with Whit and Chef's opening up the loops to "prove" the winning loop should suffice. I'll be doing this all day at a trade show in less than a month. I'll be able to provide some "in the trenches" help after that.
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ROBERT BLAKE
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One 'feint'could be the way you pick up the chain. people suspct that in the first place so why not use it on them. they will teach us the game. if you pick up on the left it is fast leftside or the reverse.

after a while the audience can decide where to pick it up.

Nice thinking Frank. this will bring the game to a modern level.
TheAmbitiousCard
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Northern California
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Quote:
On 2005-10-17 14:47, BroDavid wrote:
So Frank, are you saying the SFS Fast and Loose dvd doesn't give you what you were looking for? Or did you say it is just the Chain Gang that doesn't?


It does give you everything.

In terms of feints, that was not explored exensively but they give you certainly enough.
That came to mind when I started comparing that con with the 3 shell game.
The "switch" feint (or whatever) in the shell game is great and I was trying to apply it to the chain.

let me state clearly... "The SFS DVD is THE DVD to get". once you get that and feel comfortable that you can convince an audience it's 50/50, then get other offerings for variety.
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Pete Biro
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HOw many of you have actually seen a con where the guy does the loop and takes the money?
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
TheAmbitiousCard
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Not me. but then I ain't seen the shells or the 3 card monte neither.
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drwilson
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Bar Harbor, ME
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Pete,

I had a friend who said that he was sure that he could follow it now. I had put away the play money, and told him that if he was really sure, he could play for real. I took the guy down for $3, a buck at a time. I wouldn't do this to a stranger, at least not in this country.

So I've had my toe in the water, but I haven't really gone swimming yet.

Yours,

Paul
bropaul
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Florida
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I make some dough every time I show it. Well at least 90% of the time. Them's good odds.

The routine that I use needs 6 bills. I borrow a buck from 6 different people telling them that we are going to use these just for markers... Kind of like keeping track of the points. Don't worry I'll give them back...

Now I give the money to one person and play the game. After doing the bit with the shill and the rest of the routine, I end up with all the money.

At that point I just say to the guy, (tongue in cheek), "Don't play this with anyone, you're not very good at it." It gets a laugh which puts their guard down and then I fan out the money and ask if anybody wants their money back and then say, "Only tip me 10% of what you think you would have lost.

Since it's only a buck, from each person, I usually get the cash. If one guy says, " Go a head, keep it." That's all it takes. I continue to offer the money back and they all say, just keep it.

Six bucks in 4 minutes. It kills the time between "Shows", in a productive way on both sides of the table.
Bro. Paul West

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NJJ
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I think that if you were to ask for three coins from a spectator (or two spectators) and then tell them that if they beat you they get $100 (lay the money down)and the actually take their $1.25 and pocket it when they lose, it could make the routine VERY strong.

So long as the person doesn't feel pressured to play.
Dave V
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I haven't played it yet for money, just tokens.

The Trade Show crowd I did this for was a bit...unique. I needed no opener, no building and "edge," no hat pass (well, I substitued an invitation at the end to talk to one of our sales agents if that counts). The foot traffic was constant, and people expected to see something from the odd looking guy in the hat, fiddling with the chain on the table.

After all the over planning and learning multiple outs and "proofs" it came down to about a minute or two per person, about four chain throws each. It was fun to "mix it up" a bit practicing all the varieties of things that could be done, but it was hardly ever necessary except for my own entertainment. Very few stood around long enough to "bust" my moves, and the occasional doubter was easily convinced otherwise (thanks to Whit's expert teaching).

If anyone's worried about if they can do it I suggest trying the Trade Show route, even if its only for your "day job" company. The experience and lessons you'll learn are invaluable, and without the pressure to get your edge going or making your hat means you can concentrate more on your presentation.
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Whit Haydn
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Large sections from our Fast and Loose DVD, including Chef Anton's complete performance routine and several teaching sections are available free on Scoundrels Photos. Just go to Scoundrels Forum ( http://www.ScoundrelsForum.com )and click on the Photos button, or go directly to http://www.whithaydn.com/coppermine
NJJ
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A quick question for those playing ALL the time.

If you perform this hundreds (if not thousands) of times. What do you do on that one occasion when you stuff up and LOSE!

Do you hand over the cash? Or do you have an out?
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