We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Café and mentalism - a growing concern » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3~4 [Next]
Mr Amazing
View Profile
Special user
617 Posts

Profile of Mr Amazing
Something has begun ringing in the back of my head over the past few weeks, or perhaps even months.

Mentalists probably want the art to, at large, remain a bit obscure. However, right here it is openly discussed with over 4000 people, not even counting those that just lurk around out of curiosity.

Obviously being here doesn't make anyone a good mentalist, especially considering that a lot of mentalism has much more real stuff to it than what is discussed here, but the mere openness kind of belittles mentalism into mere supposed methods and tricks.

Don't get me wrong - this is an excellent and valuable place, but it is getting crowded in here and judging from the increasing rate of "got sum great mentalism tricks?"-posts it's perhaps time to watch our tongues a little...

(Personally, I've edited my older posts)

Sincerely, and with concern for preserving the essence,

Matias
Chad Sanborn
View Profile
Inner circle
my fingers hurt from typing,
2206 Posts

Profile of Chad Sanborn
Yes mentalism is on the rise as far as popularity in the public eye. With the 'stunts' and 'bizarre effects' of David Blaine and Chris Angel, as well as their 'far from the norm' presentations, I think the time is right for a mentalist to take over as the 'king of magic' on tv right now. Why have their been no 'street mentalist' shows? I did see a show called 'street hypnosis'! why not mentalism?

Chad
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
When Derren Brown's series is released over there you will see that its already happening. Smile
PK
View Profile
Regular user
131 Posts

Profile of PK
I'm a little surprised that the test to get in the secret section is the number of posts you make. However this is probably the only workable method.

I remember when some of the magic news groups had nothing but posts asking, 'how does Blaine do this, that, the other etc'.

On the other hand I guess you are unlikely to come here unless you have a genuine interest in the subject.

Kevin
eric2104
View Profile
New user
saint-martin (French West Indies)
87 Posts

Profile of eric2104
Hi to all

Just one thought about "street mentalism", if I may...

Wasn't it Anneman who said that mentalism was best suited for "small groups of intelligent people", or something close to that (I don't remember the exact words unfortunately).

And why the fascination for TV (except for the money of course)? I would hate to appear overly elitist here, but in my opinion, mentalism is exactly the type of magic that was meant to entertain educated people in rather intimate settings.

Drawing from my own experience, groups of doctors or engineers (the rational minds) give a better reaction to mentalism than groups of car salesmen. Please don't get me wrong, I have nothing against car salesmen: I have just noted that these guys seem to react better to a good Cups and Balls Routine than to a Psychometry routine, while the reverse is true with medical doctors...

By construction, mentalism is the most interactive type of magic: to be a mind-reader, the mentalist needs someone else's mind to read! And the interactivity works better, at least in my humble opinion, with smaller groups, where we have an opportunity to work with everyone of the participants.

Also by construction, mentalism is a rather "intellectual" type of magic, which I find easier to "sell" to people with a certain level of education, because we share the same sort of knowledge referential (this is also why mentalism doesn't play too well with kids: their referential is too far away from ours).

I love to see David Blaine perform his street magic; I would hate to see mentalism done in the street though. But again, that is only my humble opinion, what do I know?

This being said, I agree with Matias regarding the openness of these columns and the multiplication of requests such as "great mentalism tricks"...

Best regards to all.
Eric.
Smile
"All magic is mental"
Tony Shiels.
Paradox
View Profile
Regular user
178 Posts

Profile of Paradox
There are other forums on the net devoted solely to mentalism. THE NAILWRITER is very good. You get in by a vote of the members & techniques are openly discussed.
xersekis
View Profile
Special user
591 Posts

Profile of xersekis
Quote:
On 2002-11-08 08:35, chadmagic wrote:
Yes mentalism is on the rise as far as popularity in the public eye. With the 'stunts' and 'bizarre effects' of David Blaine and Chris Angel, as well as their 'far from the norm' presentations, I think the time is right for a mentalist to take over as the 'king of magic' on tv right now. Why have their been no 'street mentalist' shows? I did see a show called 'street hypnosis'! why not mentalism?

Chad



I have just that show in the works.

Enjoy!
Rex
Alan Munro
View Profile
Inner circle
Kentwood, Michigan, USA
5687 Posts

Profile of Alan Munro
Maybe it's time for a "Secret Sessions" type of category for mentalism? Only those with 50 posts could get in, eliminating the lurkers.
zmagicleez
View Profile
Regular user
122 Posts

Profile of zmagicleez
Good idea.
It's a small world... but you wouldn't want to hoover it.
Socrates
View Profile
Regular user
170 Posts

Profile of Socrates
It doesn't matter really does it?

The people who come on these types of sites are the ones who are interested in learning magic or mentalism in the first place.

What is the point in making the 'Mentalism page' elitist?

Personally, I'd say in the real world, where people are making a living, no one really cares how things are performed anyway.

And like Eugene Burger says, more is exposed by bad performance than by exposure from TV programmers or magic websites.

So what's the big deal?

Socrates

'Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go' - T.S Eliot Smile
AllThumbs
View Profile
Veteran user
UK
376 Posts

Profile of AllThumbs
The problem is that many of the people (especially recently) aren't really that interested. They have seen the latest Derren Brown special and have a passing curiosity on how its done. They tend on the whole to then disappear when nobody will tell them.

Eugene Burger might be right, but those bad performers are exactly the people who come here saying "How is xxxxxx done"

Its is a common complaint that mentalists are elitist. It is simply not true. They care more about ensuring secrets are maintained and that its not presented inappropriately. Its the way magic used to be, but no longer is. If you share the right attitude then you will be welcomed as a mentalist. If you act like a kid, then you'll be treated like one.

Regards,

Kris Sheglova
The above is all rubbish, except that which you chose to believe
A l a i n B e ll o n
View Profile
Loyal user
296 Posts

Profile of A l a i n B e ll o n
Quote:
Why have their been no 'street mentalist' shows? I did see a show called 'street hypnosis'! why not mentalism?

Chad



I had a 1 hr show of that nature at the end of last year ( I think it aired in January of this year ). It was all pure mentalism. It was practically propless except for some quartz crystals.
A l a i n —— B e ll o n
Socrates
View Profile
Regular user
170 Posts

Profile of Socrates
Hi Kris,

You say:

'If you share the right attitude then you will be welcomed as a mentalist.'

Could you please expand upon this comment and explain what you mean when you talk of the right attitude?

Socrates

'Original details are very ordinary, except to the mind that sees their extraordinariness' - N.Goldberg Smile
John Nesbit
View Profile
Inner circle
United States
1418 Posts

Profile of John Nesbit
Integrity,creativity,and cultivating a backround into the nature of thought and consciousnes.These three things come to mind when considering this field of entertainment.
Has anyone here ever looked into the source
of when the mind and "supernormal powers" were first being written about ? In the Yoga background, these "powers" are called the "Siddhis". They are revealed originally in the "Yoga Sutras of Patanjali". But the prime focus is "balance". Not taking youself too seriously. By persuing these Siddhis, you can lose your way to understanding your "true" self. Which is by the way,is the actual "path" of fully realizing all these "inherent" qualities, already inside us.
A great reference book on this sublect is by
John McAfee, "Beyond the Siddhis". It wakes you up to the fact that we already posses all these powers. The key to this is perspective. It was even put forth by J K Rowling,when Prof Dumbledor told Harry Potter about, "looking in the mirror too much."
I'm sure those who have read "Banachek, Derren Brown, Eugene Burger,
Jeff McBride, even Harlan Tarbell, would see this connection. Having an understanding of the "source of thought", and how to access it, can only lead to greater creativity. And to a deeper connection to those we perform our "art" for.
There are more truths and "secrets" to be learned from inside our own minds, than from any outside source. "All doors open inwardly". And that includes the ones we open here in this forum. Let us all here learn to become truly "awakened"/(Buddha),in in our "Hidden Minds of Freedom" (Tarthang Tulku).
Smile "OMmmm......"
Sergeant
View Profile
Regular user
129 Posts

Profile of Sergeant
I would not worry. Most people simply do not have the time or inclination once they leave a performance to research or buy a book on the subject of mentalism or magic. If you take a step back and look at this forum you would find that it would take a great deal of time and dedication to read and understand what is here alone. We have our own colloquialisms and genre. It would seem much like Latin to 99% of the laymen that visit this site.
An additional note, I perform at a lot of colleges. I am asked about David Blaine from time to time. His levitation is one of the most curious items for them. (For this generation it has the same effect as the Statue of liberty Vanish did for the last one.) I was approached by one college student with a cursory interest in magic who told me he did a search on the internet for the secret of David Blaine’s levitation. He then went into a vague description of the Balducci Levitation and told me that it was all the information he could get. He asked me for further clarification on how it was done, since the explanation on the internet was too lame. I probed his mind for additional information, but it seemed the more he talked of what he found on the internet the more confused he became. The conversation came to a bitter end for him when I relayed that I had no idea how it was done.
Now comes the kicker. Another student in the group then asked me if I thought it might be real then. I smiled and showed her a card trick.

Sergeant
Gianni
View Profile
Special user
WILMINGTON, DE
992 Posts

Profile of Gianni
I think Matias' point is well-taken. I was rather shy about voicing a strong opinion on this for the first few years I was in magic because I wanted to think it through.

I have come to the conclusion that we should tighten things up. The internet has changed the rules. I have simply come to reject emphatically the "laymen don't have time to look at the internet" point of view. I think this is a head-in-the-sand approach. Now I would not take this approach if we were talking about requiring some burdensome or expensive impediment. But it is soooo easy. We've got passwords, numbers of posts, short quizzes.

We are in an age of instant information. This is harmful to magic. Period. Is it a death knell? Maybe not - at least in the short run. But is it undesirable? Yes. Don't we care enough to put up some slight protections? What's the big deal. To serious enthusiasts these impediments are inconsequential. To the idly curious they are deterrents. I don't need to get into a trial of proving this and by how much. We're still allowed to use common sense. The question is simple: do you provide minimal, effortless protections to guard something you love?

Gianni
Bruno
View Profile
New user
62 Posts

Profile of Bruno
Todays layman is tomorrows Derren Brown.
AllThumbs
View Profile
Veteran user
UK
376 Posts

Profile of AllThumbs
I was going to try and keep out of this one in public, but here goes.

Bruno, no he isn't. Derren was a magician for quite a number of years before he does what he does now.

People come here with the mis-placed view that if only they knew the secrets they could be like Derren Brown. This is not true.

If you want to get to the same sort of level you are going to have to work, and for some number of years. 95-99% (at a guess) of those that come here are not prepared to put in the hard work.

There is a sudden Blaine-like craze (but with Derren) at present. The number of new participants in this forum has jumped by a huge amount since the repeat of Derren't Mind Control series recently. The problem is, what most of the newcomers don't realize, is that because of this rush of new people a large majority of the knowledgable, professional, well known and best mentalists known in the world today - who USED to post here, no longer do. Or if any of them do still post here, they leave most of the real discussion for forums elsewhere (don't ask me, I refuse to say).

So why have they left en-masse? For many reasons:

1) The Wanna-be's

2) Same tired questions are being asked time and time again. Why don't you read the old archives before you start a new topic. It would save everybody's time. Every other post is 'What book should I start with'. I even noticed a topic on "De Profundis" on which I wrote a topic about a month ago!

3) A lot of people are accidentally exposing method, or don't care they are exposing method. I take for example the *recent* de profundis post. Jees! Mentalists care about their secrets and certainly don't tolerate people that expose them.

4) There are a few other reasons. But I shall bite my tongue as it would not be appropriate to talk about them here as they are 'political' in nature.

Regards,

Kris Sheglova

:( Smile Smile
The above is all rubbish, except that which you chose to believe
Mr Amazing
View Profile
Special user
617 Posts

Profile of Mr Amazing
Quote:
Bruno wrote:
Todays layman is tomorrows Derren Brown.


Yesterdays layman was astonished by the magic Cups and Balls.

Todays layman considers it a neat trick.
Tony Razzano
View Profile
Inner circle
South River, NJ
1579 Posts

Profile of Tony Razzano
Kris and Matias,
Well put, gentlemen.
Best regards,
Tony Razzano
Best regards,
<BR>Tony Razzano, Past President, PEA
Winner of the PEA"s Bascom Jones and Bob Haines Awards
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Café and mentalism - a growing concern » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (11 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3~4 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2018 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.2 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL