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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Café and mentalism - a growing concern » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tony Razzano
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Inner circle
South River, NJ
1579 Posts

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The guy you refer to, E, is Chris Angel. I am not saying good or bad about him, but just want to pont out that he was doing that personna before David Blaine was.
Best regards,
<BR>Tony Razzano, Past President, PEA
Winner of the PEA"s Bascom Jones and Bob Haines Awards
E-Leoni
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Veteran user
USA
358 Posts

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Trinity,
thank you for clarifying as to who did that persona first...bad on my part to jump to that conclusion. I had just seen DB's specials first, so it just comes out looking like that. A few of my friends pointed out the similarities too. I didn't know he filmed his show before DB. Sorry.

Flip,..
I know I didn't make myself clear.
Here is what I believe.
If someone is going to learn any effect and perform it on national TV,it deserves the respect, patience, and detail to attention as it was performed by our predecessors or creators of the effect. They should (in my oppinion) not just be a series of eye candy effects for the A.D.D. audience that exist out there now a days.It cheapens the art. (MHO)

There are nuance, and subtle touches that should be paid attention to when performing certain effects.
Eg: Doing the blind fold effect, when removing the blind fold. PM for details.

In my oppinion this happens because there is realy no need to study the art, or know about the art and its history, all you need now a days is a marketable image, a few tricks and there you have it,... a show.

I think if magic is going to survive, or become a respectable performing art form, we should treat it just like any other kind of performing art...ie, ballet, theater, opera,
etc, etc.

Terribly sorry if I offended anyone with my views or oppinions.


E-Leoni.
Philemon Vanderbeck
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Inner circle
Seattle, WA
3899 Posts

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Quote:
On 2002-11-18 13:51, kou wrote:

(And they said irony was dead...)


No, but blindfold acts are.

:firedevil:

Little Girl: "Why is that man putting on a blindfold?"
Mother: "So he can tell us what he sees, my dear."
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
Sariel
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Loyal user
258 Posts

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I've been avoiding reading this thread... but today i've read all of it and decided to add my humble opinion.

First let me just say that I'm just a newbie starting out in magic and mentalism, I want to try out several types of magic to see what I like best. But mentalism has definetly caught my attention, I've been enjoying very much, above coin and card magic. Especially Cold Reading, i've made incredible readings (so they say) just using tradecraft and several articles I saw on some websites.
Why am I saying this? because I COULD NEVER study any kind of magic without internet help and especially this forum! It has helped me so much...I live in Portugal, I don't have any magic shop (I looked), or magic books in the public library; all my magic stuff must be order from abroad; the only portuguese magician I know from tv is Julio de Matos. Without the advices of many of you in this forum I don't even knew where to start!

I rarely see any magic shows on tv, because there are none (or very few). My interest came naturally...I want to become someone that can entertain anyone anytime, and really amaze people, maybe later turn professional who knows?
Last week a saw a debate on tv that was going on about the supernatural, and a guy there moved a key *only* with his mind and he was called a mentalist. All the people there were stunned...and a lightning struck me: that's the kind of reaction I want to get! All the people believed that the guy really had powers! With card and coin magic people don't really believe that the guy has some supernatural powers, they know it's just a trick, but with mentalism they do.

I understand your concern in protecting magic secrets (and completly agree), but if you take out "penny for your thoughts" from this forum where would my mentalism advises come from? I wouldn't have a clue what book to read next, or what gimmnick to perform that specific effect. You're cutting out all the *new blood* to this art.
This forum should not reveal any secrets off course...it should be about mentalists helping each other and advising the newbies on questions that may arise. I believe that most of the guys that come to this site reading and posting are interested in learning, otherwise they wouldn't be here...there are no secrets revealed, you only point out to some book. Yeah...some people may think that you really need to have some special power to bend some spoon or something, but with a litle search through the magic stores they all can buy products that teach to bend spoons. If someone is clever enough to come to this site, they're clever enough to go to some online magic store and ask for the mentalism effect they saw the other guy on tv doing, and of course they will reply: "go buy banachek silverware" or whatever, boom...they realize that afterall that wasn't real, in reality the guy didn't bend the spoon only with his mind!

I'll bet you're probably thinking "here is a newbie that within a few months completly forgot about magic and mentalism" I don't know if in a year my interest in magic would be the same...who knows the future? I sure hope so! I know that if I don't have the help of other magicians or mentalists to advise me in any question I may have, off course I won't progress further, and the only way I could get this precious advice is by the internet more specifically this forum (for me it's the best and I check it on a daily base), I don't have any more sources for learning magic besides this one!


This is Just my opinion, it may not worth much as some professional magicians and mentalists out there, but...here's my 2 cents
Tony Razzano
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Inner circle
South River, NJ
1579 Posts

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Many many people make the same mistake, E.

Baline's special was filmed first, but Angel had a live show and that personna before Blaine and his special. I am not suggesting that Blaine copied Angel, either. They may have come up with that personna independently of each other.

best regards,
Tony Razzano
Best regards,
<BR>Tony Razzano, Past President, PEA
Winner of the PEA"s Bascom Jones and Bob Haines Awards
Daniel Meadows
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Manchester, UK
389 Posts

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HitmanPT- I think that the majority of people here (if not all) want a place where magicians can help each other, but it will be in the form of a book reference or something similar. The idea is not to dissect the methods in a place where anyone can read it.
Cerberus Wallet, Equilibrium, Counterfeit, Deadly Marked Deck, Infamous, Instinct
Sariel
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258 Posts

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Neil: I didn't said otherwise.
I completely agree with you
Dissecting the methods it's wrong either in the mentalism forum, or the coin, card, any forum. I think no magician wants to see it's methods dissected in a public forum.
Sorry if I didn't explain myself right.
A book reference or something similar is the right answer, no one expects to be told the whole secret of an effect in this forum (at least i don't), just somewhere where he may learn to do it.
Steve Brooks
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Northern California - United States
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I have read this topic over several times, and feel I see all sides of the equation, or at least as far as I understand it. Smile

As most of you are aware, The Magic Café was created so folks in the art can help one another. One look at our logo, and you cannot help but see Magicians helping magicians. So many times I watched young and eager beginners get flamed at other boards for asking simple but legit questions. I felt it important to have a place that provided folks with help, in a nice friendly atmosphere...I still do. Smile

I never intended the Café to be just a mentalist site, but I did provide a forum for mentalists to interact, and so they have.

The suggestion has been made that perhaps a private forum requiring passwords and such be implemented at the Café. That would pretty much defeat some of my goals. However, I do not have a problem providing a separate area in The Banquet Room for those who wish to discuss the subject on a deeper level.

I figure that most of the true professionals keep the real work on the underground level anyway, and don't mind helping out serious beginners.
In addition, those that are determined to guard the real secrets, will indeed find a dedicated website to post such thoughts.

In that light, I have just created a new forum called Inner thoughts, which is located in The Banquet Room. The forum is not visible to guests/lurkers, and can only be accessed when 50 legit posts have been made. Smile

Believe it or not, my staff and I work very hard to keep the hacks and trouble makers away, and believe me, it's a full time job!
The Our new arrivals area has been reworked, so those welcoming new members will not be able to simply welcome 50 people to access The Banquet Room, for posts made in the welcoming area are no longer added to their post count.

Further, when we do see someone making posts that are not a real contribution, we get right on top of things, that's a fact. By using the Report this post option located within every post, you can be a big help in us controlling any such problems. Smile

Though maybe not the perfect solution, I do hope the new forum will help some of you in regards to your many concerns voiced here.

Smile
"Always be you because nobody else can" - Steve Brooks
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Café and mentalism - a growing concern » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (11 Likes)
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