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noahrobd New user 16 Posts |
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On 2005-11-15 20:37, cheesewrestler wrote: They were making a joke about magic being cheesy and then purposely made some of the material on the special especially cheesy as part of the joke. They really just made a joke of the whole Aaron Carter bit. It WAS over the top cheesy and intended to be. Even the song wasn't serious. "Penn and Teller doing tricks". Its very possible that P & T's arms were twisted into having Aaron as part of the special by Producers or Execs, but in the end the joke was them, b/c Aaron's inclusion was made into a big joke, really making Aaron look like a fool, but not in harmful way. They also made themselves look like fools as well. Its all in the name of comedy/humor. |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I see. So in the name of humour, they made Magic look cheesy, made themselves look cheesy and made their guest artist look cheesy.
Quite an accomplishment. The show should have been sponsored by Kraft. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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pikacrd Veteran user Florida 387 Posts |
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On 2005-11-17 10:27, entity wrote: That was funny.
“Indubitably, Magic is one of the subtlest and most difficult of the sciences and arts. There is more opportunity for errors of comprehension, judgment and practice than in any other branch of physics”. William S. Burroughs 1914-1997 American Writer
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JoeJoe Inner circle Myrtle Beach 1915 Posts |
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I see. So in the name of humour, they made Magic look cheesy, made themselves look cheesy and made their guest artist look cheesy. P&T have always been cheesy ... where have you been? Nothing new for them there. JoeJoe
Amazing JoeJoe on YouTube[url=https://www.youtube.com/user/AmazingJoeJoe]
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cheesewrestler Inner circle Chicago 1157 Posts |
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On 2005-11-17 00:04, noahrobd wrote: Uh-huh. Riiiiiiiiiiight. |
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Matt Pulsar Inner circle 1130 Posts |
Magic has more cheese than France. Cheese doesn't bother me. Sarcasm, indifference, negativity, the whole problem with the cult of the cool, this is what made me shake my head while I watched the special.
I like Pen and Teller, I grew up seeing them here and there and enjoying their work. I worry about entertainment that takes the angle of this special. Sometimes they do little bits of this but the whole show seemed overly negative and angry. Of coarse on a subtle level. The beginning of the special was the underwater magic show. This started with the patter about cheese, and they even dissed the mermaid girl a little, I understand that this is Pen's character, a guy who says that the cut and restored rope is a dumb trick, but you can't believe this is harmless. Picture average joe America, one who is a fan of P&T, probably someone who is into pranks and sarcastic wit. Now he is eating this stuff up. He is laughing and enjoying himself. An argument to the favor of the performing magician. But picture him later seeing someone who is performing something simple like a cut and restored. As a fan he is going to cary this idea of it being a dumb trick into this separate venue. He is not going to be as present with what is happening because he has already written it off. This is what "cool" does, it categorizes things and they become written of a cool and uncool. Many beautiful things become dismissed. The dismissive attitude becomes respected and people strive to be that way. It is a weak, cowardly way to be. Sarcasm is born from insecurity. The exposing of the sub trunk was a bother, but I see the mission as more of a problem. I keep wondering what they are striving for. It is not mystery, it is not beauty. They are tricksters, not magicians. Loki. In the end what they create centers around self aggrandizing. It is one big sucker trick. If you trick someone and then tell them how you did it, and then tell them how other people do it, what did you do for that person. You fooled them, told them you are smart enough to fool them aren't you great, told them how others fool, aren't you knowledgeable, and then left them with nothing but information they can't do anything with, (unless they decide to take up the art, which I highly doubt) and destroyed a mystery which was beautiful. All you accomplish is to say "Look what I know, look how smart I am" I liked the beach card tricks, those were funny, again they did have some of the things that are bothering me. And then they did this party thing, where they started by saying they love parties, they don't drink or party but they like to mess with the people. Basically saying, people at parties are stupid and we like to show them we are better. They then trick some poor people into spilling there drinks on themselves and push a couple of guys into a pool. I wouldn't invite them to my party. Then the shark box, where they exposed Teller's escape for the TV audience before they showed him reappear. This just lets us look at people who are getting fooled. I wish they had let me be fooled for a little. Then the reaction shots, which I loved to watch, cracked me up. And ending with the sub. Funny thing though, on my bad reception non cable TV that cgi sunset looked real. I had a moment of, huh, why are they showing us that. Until I figured it wouldn't be possible. Although I even question that. Choppers can lift allot. But what does creating a vanish and miss-exposing the method tongue and cheek achieve? I am confused by this show. However, if you want to see a great couple of Pen and Teller shows, there is a dvd where they go to China, Egypt and India and search out magic history from Canadian TV which is allot of fun. Good entertainment and great knowledge. And some of the ******** episodes are phenomenal.
Belief Manifests Reality.
Nebula CT: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8517 |
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cheesewrestler Inner circle Chicago 1157 Posts |
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On 2005-11-18 05:06, StuartPalm wrote: Me neither. But they should drop the whole "magic is cheesey, but we're not" bit, cause they are. I don't think that bit is tongue-in-cheek. P&T are often funny, but they're not the saviors of the world. It does sometimes peep out from behind the mask that they (or at least Penn) truly think they are said saviors. Bad Boys, yes. |
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flobiwan Regular user 165 Posts |
Just to clear a few things up.
For all of you who said that P&T shouldn't have stretched the show out to 2 hours, they didn't. The show was only 1:27 (plus a few seconds). It's also important to keep in mind that P&T are the "bad boys" of magic. That they call the cut and restored rope trick "stupid" or "expose" some effects is part of their persona. I wouldn't be surpised if Penn actually enjoys C&R rope. Keep in mind that they do other classics like cups and balls and linking rings. They do expose some tricks. They also SAY they are exposing others while giving false explanations. Perhaps we should get upset at Richard Osterlind as he does the same thing. When he uses his memdeck routine, he will sometimes show the cards to a spectator and say something like "some people think I use marked cards or mirrors or I have the cards in some memorized order". See what I mean? He throws the real explanation in with fake ones and people don't know what to think. I am generally against exposure and I wouldn't do it myself but I also don't make a big deal out of people who do. Life is too short and there are more important things to worry about. Also, as other people in this thread have pointed out, if if you can't entertain people with the sub trunk or million dollar mystery effect, perhaps you need to work on your presentation. I just saw the special today and enjoyed it. In all fairness, though, I had been reading a lot of bad reviews and was prepared for absolute garbage so it could just be that my expectations were SO low that it took very little to entertain me. I'm also a big fan of P&T. At the risk of offending, I'll also say that I enjoyed the masked magician specials. And guess what? Magic didn't die. People still enjoy it. We still see magic specials on TV and people still enjoy watching magicians. The art of magic wasn't destroyed because some unheard of magician with money problems made a few specials. Back to the P&T special, I got to admit that it was the BEST underwater magic special I've ever seen. Fredd |
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magic and wonder New user 8 Posts |
Unleash the wonder
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Joey Stalin Inner circle Canada 1072 Posts |
Maybe this is just me, but when I watch magic, preformed by anybody, I am thinking like a spectator first then after all is said and done I start thinking like a magician and wokr out what exactly happened. I enjoy a trick first then I pick it apart, would be a shorter version. Perhaps this is why I love Penn & Teller. Perhaps some of you are thinking like magicians from the get go and that is why you dislike Penn & Teller.
-A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic.
-It is easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them. -The secret impresses no one. The trick you use it for is everything. See you space cowboy... |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
You are correct we are thinking like magicians. Now if P&T would also think like magicans instead of thinking like...like...well, whatever you call them, then perhaps they wouldn't get dissed so much.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
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On 2005-11-18 23:17, flobiwan wrote: EXCUSE ME!!!!!! The cancellation principle I use mentions things like "marked cards" and "stacked decks", something almost anyone who plays cards already knows about! This is quite a bit different than what is being discussed here! Also, the MENTION of a principle such as using "mirrors" or "trap doors" in a broad sense is not the same as actually "DOING" an effect and then "EXPOSING IT"!!!! Don't use me to justify what Penn & Teller have done! Anyone who has read my Principles Of Magic knows exactly where I stand on these issues. Richard |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Get 'em Richard!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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flobiwan Regular user 165 Posts |
Richard - I understand what you're saying. Your off-the-cuff remark regarding a generally known principl (people sometimes think I have the cards in some memorized order) is certainly different from the exposure of a specific effect. I get that. I was just trying to point out that there is a similarity in that you both tell the method your using. The difference is that in your case, you say it in a way that makes it seem as though it is NOT the method. This is not a bad thing. I apologize if I offended. I admire your work very much and I wasn't trying to "diss" you.
At the risk of getting ANOTHER magician upset with me, David Regal does the same thing in his effect "A Magic Lesson". He exposes the one way force deck but in a way that makes it seem like a joke. And he still manages to fool them at the end. Magicians are also still able to fool people with a one-way force deck. No harm has been done to the magic community. Let me clarify my position. I am AGAINST exposure. If a layman asks me how an effect is done, I will not expose the method. However, I also don't push my personal beliefs on other magicians. (one exception is tha if, during a magician's act, I hear a magi from the audience explaining the method to someone, I will politely try to stop it in that case). We like to think that these are closely guarded secrets but they aren't. A magic shop will "expose" the methods to Zig-Zag woman, Million Dollar Mystery, Metamorphosis or any other stage illusion to ANYONE willing to pay a few bucks for the plans. I have NEVER been asked to prove I was a magician before buying any magic effect or plan. I was only asked for the money. Like it or not, these are not "secrets". It is information for a price and, by definition, any information that is available to the general public for a price is not a secret. These are just my opinions. I could be wrong. Thanks. Fredd |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-19 11:18, flobiwan wrote: That just about sums up the sad truth of the situation. There ARE no secrets. Not in reality anyay.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Alex Linian Inner circle Peru 1277 Posts |
What penn & teller did was exposure.
They exposed how much hard work there is involved in magic.
Check out SKYCAP from Paul Harris Presents!- "A fine trick from the dynamic foursome..."
Jared Brandon Kopf, Magic Magazine PUNCTURE 2.0 - "Jaw-dropping amazing... You also get the absolute best teaching DVD I have ever seen" - Genii Magazine SLEIGHT OF HAND that looks like Magic. --- Alex Linian | Instagram |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
How so?
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Matt Pulsar Inner circle 1130 Posts |
I see what your saying about having only to go to a magic shop and purchase the effect or plans to get the "secret," many things only need a google search to find. Yet, this is completely aside this issue. We are talking about some knowledgeable guys who BROADCAST that's right BROADCAST on Television, not even cable, all you need is a box and a plug and you could have watched it, you don't even need to be seeking it out. and there is the information. that's the difference.
I don't see why your are trying do demonize magic shops. They should be your friends and supporters, if not, find a new shop. Yes, all you need is to pay for the plans. But, somehow you know how to ask for them. Somehow you know how to talk about what you need for your show. A good magic shop does screen you to a certain extent depending on what you are looking for. If you come in asking for some good rope, wax, and the latest issue of Genii, well, it's pretty much apparent you know what you are looking for. If you come in looking for that thing you throw on the ground to make a puff of smoke and vanish, well then you have no clue and are not going to end up buying plans for the sub trunk. If you really wanted such a thing for cheap there is always the library anyhow. On the flip side, when someone exposes on a show, all you had to do was passively turn on the tube. kind of cheapens the whole thing.
Belief Manifests Reality.
Nebula CT: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8517 |
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Amazing Dick New user 59 Posts |
I finally watched the show and was not impressed by Penns "witty" banter. I enjoyed their show live but it didn't come across as well on tv. Then again I saw that show 10 years ago and have aged a little since,maybe my sense of humor has changed?
Peace Out !
Amazing Dick |
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flobiwan Regular user 165 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-11-21 04:42, StuartPalm wrote: Good point. I guess there is a difference between someone seeking info and someone having it thrust upon them. I hadn't thought about that. However, how much did P&T really expose? Yes, they exposed the sub trunk but I don't think they did it in a way that people will really believe it. They did it extremely slow, not in the lightning fast way that it's done on stage. Keep in mind, too that the last helicopter shot in the show was designed as a joke and it causes people to re-evaluate everything else in the show. Kind of a "here's how it's done...but not really" type of thing. And what about Million Dollar Mystery? Did they really expose it? When it's done on stage, how do the girls get into the box without us seeing their legs or any other part of their body? The "expose" P&T did wouldn't really work on stage above water for obvious reasons. Quote:
I don't see why your are trying do demonize magic shops. They should be your friends and supporters, if not, find a new shop. Yes, all you need is to pay for the plans. But, somehow you know how to ask for them. Somehow you know how to talk about what you need for your show. A good magic shop does screen you to a certain extent depending on what you are looking for. If you come in asking for some good rope, wax, and the latest issue of Genii, well, it's pretty much apparent you know what you are looking for. If you come in looking for that thing you throw on the ground to make a puff of smoke and vanish, well then you have no clue and are not going to end up buying plans for the sub trunk. If you really wanted such a thing for cheap there is always the library anyhow. I'm not trying to demonize magic shops. Believe me, I LOVE magic shops (and sorely miss Mecca Magic). I was just stating a fact that magic shops sell secrets for cash. You're right, someone not in the know wouldn't know what a sub trunk was called from watching a magic show but they could research it on the net and then buy the plans from a shop, couldn't they? I was able to google a website that gives the name for every marketed effect that David Copperfield has ever done on TV. People could also describe the effect to a magic dealer who could then tell them the name and sell them the plans. I may be wrong but I don't ever remember seeing a magic shop refuse to sell an effect to me or anyone else just because they didn't know the name. I myself have bought tricks in the past with nothing more than, "what's that trick where the guy...?" Fredd |
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