I do close-up magic. Stage Magic fasinates me and for the most part I'm not really sure how most of it is done and frankly I don't want to know. I have too much fun watching Copperfield to think about it. I can guess but I'm not quite sure. I'd much rather just enjoy a show and feel the wonder. A previous post summed last nights show up quite succintly...boring and unimaginative. I'll add the sadly overused word...exposing.

I'll comment on the obvious. Last night, I was shaking my head when my wife watched the Sub Truck 'illusion' and commented "...so that's how it's done". No harm...she's married to a magician. She's privy to all sorts of 'secrets'. She's 'allowed' to know. I just can't shake off the fact that so many many other people have now been 'let down' because if they ever see 'real' magicians performing that "cheesy" (Penns' word) illusion they won't be amazed. To say that it's different because it's underwater is fooling ourselves. If they saw it...they know how it's done on stage as well. I can't see how telling the viewers how it is done makes for a better show. Everyone KNOWS magic isn't real. Isn't it insulting to the viewers to explain that fact by exposing the illusion? What am I missing?

I read awhile back where some museum was going to reveal the Sub Trunk illusion secret as part of their display. They justified their position by saying that it was to inform and enlighten those interested in the history of magic by showing them one of Houdini's great illusions. Afterall, only those that visited the museum would be privy to the exhibit and its secret. It seemed to have caused an uproar among a lot of magicians to the point where the museum finally backed off on their idea. I recall that they had planned to do it in a dignified and honorable fashion in order to exalt the art...not introduce it as a 'cheesy' trick that Houdini did. I'd like to think I will see the same magicians comment on this 'special'. Perhaps I'm just not getting the difference but isn't this much more destructive than productive to the art of magic in general?

I watched the 'special' for one main reason. I cannot comment on or defend the art of magic without being informed on magic 'specials' that will inevitably come up in conversation with laymen. This one in particular seemed to want to bring the art down to the level of a bunch of 'cheesy' tricks and exalt P&T as the givers of knowledge to all those foolish enough to want to believe in the performance aspect and art of magic. I think the term 'chessy' that Penn kept using just sticks in my head. It's as if he thought that all magic was 'cheesy' and he wanted to let us know that by informing us we would now be an evolved audience not gullible of falling for magic. Didn't they actually just steal some wonder from us?.

I read about a birthday party fiasco concerning a skit that P&T did about Jesus on the cross that was reported to have been extremely raw and distasteful and people actually walked out right in the middle of it. I found this special leaving the same bad taste in my mouth.

The one good thing that came out of this, for me, is that I know what sponsoring commercial products I've decided not to purchase. Since money seems to be the driving force for P&T then I can only reciprocate in like fashion.

As Captain Hook said...Bad Form.

Just as an sidenote, I'm at work (on a break as I write this) and earlier a co-worker approached me asking if I had seen the "Show & Teller" special last night. He's quite proud of himself to think that he's original in characterizing the 2.

It seems he too was exposed to much more than he thought he was entitled to know adding the sad commentary that "I knew Houdini was full of crap (laughing)".

Oh well, as long as "Show & Teller" can still sell their wares, right?

I watched about a half-hour of it. Saw the sub-trunk cage, Aaron Carter thing, and the Cayman Island audience buffoon bit. Didn't really see the need to expose the methods to the sub-trunk and box productions. Somehow felt they were cheapening magic by attacking "street magicians" and those who do "cheezy illusions". I then turned to the Steelers game. I would be surprised if the show had good ratings based upon the segment I saw.

I agree completely. I tuned in hoping and expecting to be entertained. It was not entertaining in the least. There were very few jokes that were actually funny. I normally like Penn and Teller -- but that was one of the worst TV magic specials I've ever seen. I taped it ... but no need to remove the tab from the back of the tape. I doubt I'll have the urge to watch this one again.

As for the "exposure" ... it was pretty harmless. But what was the point? It didn't add to the entertainment -- it actually took away from the entertainment. The only "exposure" that was entertaining was the sub-vanish at the end ... that cracked me up, in part because I think there will be people who actually believe that was really how they did it.

But this show had almost zero entertainment value. A major disappointment.

Performing illusions underwater ... Well, that may have seemed like a great idea at the time, but it ended up being incredibly lame. Basically, they spent two hours playing out the single "joke" of underwater magic. All they proved was that magic is made more boring underwater. (Except when they cut the guy's airhose, of course.)

Even if they hadn't exposed Metamorphosis, the performance had very little entertainment value. It was impossible to do a quick change under those circumstances, and Metamorphosis without a quick change is a poor illusion. (Yes, it's poor when Angel does it without a quick change, too.)

It seemed clear to me that Penn and Teller sold NBC on an idea -- underwater magic! with exposure! But neither NBC nor Penn and Teller thought the idea through and realised what a poor special it would end up being. Frankly, I think this is going to hurt Penn and Teller's chances of getting another special anytime soon.

The low point of the show was the horrid performance of Aaron Carter. Wow, that was awful.

Remember, I didn't tune in as a Penn and Teller hater. I tuned in hoping and expecting to be entertained. I was sorely disappointed.

I just could not believe Aaron Carter performed, I mean that MUST have been thanks to the higher powers above P&T.... I Highly doubt they are true Carter fans. Just added way more "cheese" than necessary to the entire show. Still I seemed to have enjoyed it more than most of the previous posts. I like penn & teller... I think their humor is smart and liberal, and magic needs some refreshment sometimes.

has anyone seen their series, ********? I recommend it.

I like P&T, but I thought this show stunk. Horrible. Practically unwatchable. It wasn't funny, the magic was lame. I just couldn't stand it. I was really looking foward to it but it was a total disappointment. If this is what P&T are going to come up with for a network special, I don't want them getting anymore network specials. Get someone else. What a giant waste of primetime Network air.

I tuned in last night. One of the first things out of Penn's mouth was "There's no such thing as magic, they're just tricks." I read somewhere that he claims magicians must think that audiences are complete idiots, but by making that statement he must think the same thing.

The special (and I use the term loosely) was not funny in the least and a complete bore and I was done after 15 minutes. IMHO they're thinking is very odd and they are a disgrace to magic.

Sadly I think they have no respect for others... the art or anythingn else but themselves. I was there when they did their Anti-Religous Display and it was BEYOND BAD TASTE...it was worse than XXX rated and they should have bee tarred and feathered and run out of town.

I viewed the show with an open mind. I have heard of Penn and Teller before, and sort of knew what kind of magic they did (comedy). However, I wasn't impressed with this magic show. In fact, a friend happened to call me on the phone about 15 minutes prior to the end of the show (the disappearing sub illusion) to talk, etc. I ended up muting the TV while talking to her, and didn't even watch the sub illusion grand finale! That's how much the TV show held my interest!

Who is Aaron Carter? Never heard of that singer before. His singing was lame.

I can see why NBC has the lowest ratings of all the networks.

The whole show seemed hastily put together and not given much thought. One of the few parts I did like and thought was pretty creative was when they hid all 52 cards on the beach in various places.

Overall, on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being OUTSTANDING and 1 being POOR, I'd rate this show as a 3.

Hoodrat, you might want to revise your rating system

I wish Mr. Carter was subject to one of their more bloody illusions, the kind where the victim is wheeled off stage unrestored (which they have done in the past, usually on themselves).

I too it seems, as usual am in the minority once again as I enjoyed P&T’s special last night. But then I freely admit that I am a fan so, unlike their many detractors I tend to lean to the pro side and am more willing to excuse any minor infractions. I also don’t possess the automatic knee jerk reaction to exposure that many of my compatriots seem to suffer from and can laugh at myself as well as others.
I will be truthful and state right up front that I thought the show could have been tightened up, perhaps ninety minutes instead of two hours could have achieve this end. All in all however I thought that it was a good and enjoyable bit of television.
I particularly liked the skewering of the so-called “Street Magician”. Their commentary of performing magic “live” just as if you were here, except that you can’t see what’s to the right of us or the left, or above us nor below and there is no depth either but other than that it is just as if you were actually here seeing us do these things. Also getting the crowd to react to things that weren’t happening hopefully will get producers of magic specials to think twice before airing magic specials that focus more on the reactions of the audiences than to the skills of the performer.
I admire P&T for doing a show that reflects their personalities and view of magic instead of jumping on the popularity of the recent slate of “Street Magician” specials. They could have very easily just stayed in Las Vegas and walked up and down the strip inflicting magic on the innocent and getting passerby’s to scream like little girls. But then that’s what everyone else is doing on their magic specials these days so there’s no percentage at all in doing a show in this manner.
The exposure segments if taken individually were pointless but were in fact essential to the final blow off of the helicopter explanation at the end. The blending of the “real” exposes combined with fraudulent explanations left the audience guessing as to which were true and which were not.
The purpose of P&T’s performances is to entertain their audiences not fool them. While this may not be a popular philosophy in the magic world it is a viewpoint that perhaps more of us should consider. Their presentations too, like any other magicians should be are aimed at appealing to non-magician audiences. I doubt you could maintain a show at the Rio playing to all magician audiences.
As for the “Bad Boys” of magic not giving the art the respect many feel magic should deserve. Magic gets the respect (or lack of it) that it does because far too many of its practitioners don’t take it seriously.
Really now, if we all treated the performance of magic even half as seriously as say actors or musicians treat their respective art forms do you really think that two rouge magi from Las Vegas could drag it down?
We are all too quick to point finger and blame others for our own failings.

I like P&T, also, I don't freak on minor exposure. P&T have always exposed less than people think they do anyhow. Payne says "The purpose of P&T’s performances is to entertain their audiences not fool them." and I agree with that to some degree. Although, Penn did say "hoepfully we fooled you with some of these things."

Penn and Teller do enjoy fooling people. I think it's a bit silly to say that is not their purpose. If some one did a trick by trick expose of their current show. And blew it wide open...They would take action. Don't kid yourself.

I would be prone to give them the benifit of the doubt as well. I can't really think of one thing I ever seen them do that I didn't enjoy. That being said I thought this special was awful. I literally couldn't watch parts of it. It was embarassing. It may be the only magic special I've ever seen on TV that I thought just plain stunk. I hope they do something better in the future. But based on this, they are going to have to come back strong. This show was a fricking mess.

Vandy

I am one of the critics in this thread and I do want to add that I am a fan of Penn and Teller. In fact a few years ago I drove two hours each way on a weeknight to watch them live in Greensburg PA. And I enjoyed that show very much. Since I didn't watch the entire episode I didn't realize that they were setting up a major exposure hoax on the finale. I guess this does help explain away the previous exposures. That aside, truthfully, the half-hour I saw was not funny or entertaining to me.

Kinda curious what laypeople think about the show.

We all knew that magicians would hate it!

I agree with the previous two posters. For me, it wasn't about not liking Penn and Teller -- because generally, I DO like them. It wasn't about exposure -- I'm not terribly sensitive about exposure in general, and the exposure in this episode was about as harmless as it comes. I just thought it was uninteresting, unfunny, and a waste of two hours. The whole thing felt pointless. Basically they were presenting illusions that were not terribly interesting in the way they were performed (see my Metamorphosis criticism -- this is a prime example), and then, if there was any "mystery" generated, they took it away. And they didn't expose it in a way that was either funny, or even terribly informative for the viewer.

They've done better work. And while I haven't seen everything they've done, I can't imagine they've done anything worse. It was just bad television.

Well, the thing is, some of the magicians who expected to like it -- myself included -- hated it, too.

If non-magicians liked it, I'd like to know why.

Jim, think you said it all. Not one person in my office who started watching the special last night made it past the first 30 minutes... Personally, I tend to enjoy their magic. Just didn't find this show to be entertaining.

...and I'd balance out any criticism of Teller with the great work he's doing on historic works such as House of Mystery (with Todd Karr). Would be interesting for Genii or Magic to do an interview with them on the rationale behind their exposures -- or has one already been done?

Final thought -- on the Substitution Trunk, do you really think there is any audience member out there who doesn't believe there is some type of trap door in the trunk? Great opportunity for a good performer to acknowledge this assumption, and then fool 'em anyway. Same way Dunninger did when some of his billet work was exposed...

Payne:

Many of your points are well taken. However, I hope you meant rogue magicians, not two guys wearing red make-up on their cheeks!

Best wishes,

Bob

C/mon you guys... they DID expose the sub vanish... that's how you do it.

Again, let me say this. Let's say you have a pro magic act, you make your living doing it and you close with Sub Trunk.

After show folks come up to you and say, "Yah that trunk clever how you do it, I saw Penn and Teller show us how... it used to really fool me."

Pete,

Not everyone can do this, but I will.

I'll have a camera on the side of the trunk, and it will show the back of the trunk at all times. May even have the camera pan back and forth from the Back to side before and after the exchange.

I plan to do this on stage on the 17th of Dec.. that'll show em

LOL.

Think OUT of the BOX.

:)