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Nachtzehrer Veteran user Portugal 324 Posts |
OK, let assume the following:
Someone has bought the Tommy Wonder Books or DVD's (i'm using this example here, because anyone that has both or one of this knows how complicated some things are to build). Anyone that has the dvd's or books knows that the manufacturing rights are reserved. but one can build for himself for personal use. Now, lets say that I don't have the skills, tools or simple don't whant to take the trouble to make them. Is it ethical to get someone else to build them for me?? or can someone build lets say, as an example 5 of the same aparatus for five diferent people that have bought the books or dvd's. Can someone have a business that builds complicated stuff from other performers that they have released to people that don't know how to build, but, of course, only to people that have the books or dvd's?? Not only Tommy Wonder (i'm used this example as some of the stuff is really complicated to buid) but anyone else that has released his aparattus, be it in book form or dvd?? Now, before the flaming starts. NO, I don't want to open this kind of business. its just an hypothetical question. it would be nice to know what other have to say to this question. Alex
Alex
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Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
Here is my input Alex:
Someone has bought the Tommy Wonder Books or DVD's (i'm using this example here, because anyone that has both or one of this knows how complicated some things are to build). Q. Anyone that has the dvd's or books knows that the manufacturing rights are reserved. but one can build for himself for personal use. A. I say yes, otherwise buying the book, tape or DVD would be pointless. Q. Now, lets say that I don't have the skills, tools or simple don't whant to take the trouble to make them. Is it ethical to get someone else to build them for me? A. Yes, no problem here Q. or can someone build lets say, as an example 5 of the same aparatus for five diferent people that have bought the books or dvd's. A. A little more dicey, what are the odds all five people actually bought the book and asked the same guy. This scenario is a little too close to manufacturing for me. I would give it a qualified, no. I believe this to go beyond the bounds of what is ethical. Q. Can someone have a business that builds complicated stuff from other performers that they have released to people that don't know how to build, but, of course, only to people that have the books or dvd's? A. This IS manufacturing and the answer for me is clearly a no. It is exactly what the author was trying to restrict. Generally manufacturing rights reserved means that one day the inventor/author wants to build or have some guy build them and sell them himself. Q. Not only Tommy Wonder (i'm using this example as some of the stuff is really complicated to buid) but anyone else that has released his aparattus, be it in book form or dvd? A. My answers do not change regardless of the status of the inventor/author Now, before the flaming starts. NO, I don't want to open this kind of business. its just an hypothetical question. it would be nice to know what other have to say to this question. Alex Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
I believe, and I have no doubt I will be corrected if I am wrong, but it would be ethical for someone to offer their construction services to blueprint and rights holders. Example. I build props, you have a book like the aforementioned and bring it to me to build something for you. I do so, you get the constructed prop and book (or dvd, whatever) back. Another person comes to me and wants the same effect build under the same conditions. Then another. At no time does anyone recieve the product who does not own the instructions and rights to the prop use. I believe this falls under fair use. If not, I'm pretty certain if in adition to the above cenario, the constructor also buys the book, dvd, whatever as well, you are on even safer ground. You are not offering the product, you are offering blanket construction services which are being used in similar ways by different people.
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Nachtzehrer Veteran user Portugal 324 Posts |
Great replies.
I was thinking along what your said Jack. Someone could offer those services to people that buy the books or dvd's that explain it so that people without the tools or skills to build them might use them.
Alex
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Careful. Don't go getting yourself into trouble because of something I said.
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Nachtzehrer Veteran user Portugal 324 Posts |
I don't pretend to do it. I have absolutly no skills in doind things complicated.
I just started this topic just to hear the toughts of other people on the subject.
Alex
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
You could always contact Tommy Wonder and see what he has to say.
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Nachtzehrer Veteran user Portugal 324 Posts |
I used Tommy Wonder just as an example, because most of the stuff on his DVD's and Books is hard and complicated to construct.
It would apply to anyone that has material hard or complicated to construct.
Alex
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
If someone who puts out a magic DVD with manufacturing or other restrictions, it might be best to check with them regarding dilemmas like these. That way you can be sure to avoid legal or ethical violations.
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Nachtzehrer Veteran user Portugal 324 Posts |
But the restrictions are for commercial manufacturing or markting. what else whould you buy a DVD or Book if you couldn't build the suff for yourself??
Alex
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
I'm sure you would be allowed to build it yourself. But there were some other issues brought up that seemed more gray, like hiring someone else to build it. My point is just that if one is unsure whether he is violating the restrictions, ethically or legally, checking with the creator would be a pretty simple way to solve the dilemma. If there's no ethical dilemma, there's no need to contact the creator of the DVD.
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Nachtzehrer Veteran user Portugal 324 Posts |
It is my opinion that would be totally ethical and legal to hire someone to build something that you don't have the skills or tools to do so, as long has you have the original book or dvd where the construction is explained.
I mean, people sub-contract other people for every kind of job in our lifes. are you going to build your one house?? it happens everyday, so why not in magic? why would it be unethical?? There is no reason to be as long has you don't mass produce and you have the original texts with the explanation.
Alex
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jimtron Inner circle 2039 Posts |
I guess it depends on what exactly the restriction says.
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Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
It matters not what the restriction says. The author/creator has no way to hold you or anyone else who buys something hostage. He/she sold it, it now belongs to you. The "restrictions" are smoke and mirrors. As Nachtzehrer correctly points out, the restrictions are for commercial manufacturing or marketing.
Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
"commercial manufacturing" receiving monetary remuneration for the building of the prop. Pretty clearly forbidden. More specifically typically the claim is "all commercial production rights reserved". Build it yourself or ask permission of the author to have someone build it for you.
If the guy built it for free, that MIGHT be a different issue. The honorable thing to do is ASK. |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Their is a big difference between "commercial production" and employing someones skills. A huge difference.
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Nachtzehrer Veteran user Portugal 324 Posts |
I agree with Jack. Commercial production, on my view, would be for someone to "mass produce" the apparatus.
Another thing would be to hire someone to build it for you, again, providing you ahve the original source the material came from.
Alex
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
I'll chip in on this...
If someone came to me with plans for an ilusion and said, "Hey, can you build this for me?" I'd say, sure, as long as I know he bought the plans and intends to use the illusion himself. I can always say no. If he came back later and said, "Hey, so-and-so loved the thing, so I sold it to him. Can you build me another one?" I'd say, hey, pal, I'm not your manufacturer.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Nachtzehrer Veteran user Portugal 324 Posts |
Exactly my point George.
Alex
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Beutifully put George, though I would have to ask, what if his friend bought the "rights" and came to you as a referal?
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