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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-24 21:33, raphlo2 wrote: So every musician that does a concert for Bud is a sellout, by your standards, every baseball team that is sponsored by Bud is a sellout by your standards and NASCAR is just one BIG sellout because all you see on those cars and racing gear IS advertising! That's what your post seems to say, as I read it. Overt advertising is not okay in your book. Sponsorship is not okay in your book. Your call. I disagree for a number of reasons. Welcome to the SECOND word in show BUSINESS. This isn't selling out, it's MAKING A LIVING in one's chosen field of endeavor! Why is it that "artistes" seem to think that art and money cannot go hand in hand? Why is it that, when an artist, in literally ANY artform, whether is's magic, music, the fine arts, dance, literature or even composing, makes it big in a financial sense, that they have somehow lost "artistic integrity," whatever that might be? My father was a cartoonist, who happened to also be a sucessful fine artist as well in both the areas of painting and photography. He got paid and paid pretty well, for what he did. To the best of my knowledge, he NEVER compromised his "artistic integrity" by doing something that he morally or ethically disagreed with, simply "for the money" or because the client "had him over a barrell." I doubt that many magicians even run into such a situation, frankly. So - tell me, honestly - how DOES one "sell out?" because, I could sure use that kind of money! And I'm not doing all that badly right now, but a corporate sponsor for a close up magic tour would be nice for late Summer/early Fall of this year... ;) Any takers out there? Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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bobbyk Special user Florida 683 Posts |
I wish "Absolut Citron" would offer me a deal. I'm running low...
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frenchmagi Loyal user 264 Posts |
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Because it almost always does. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
So YOU are the judge?
where did you think the money for A&E was comming from? Come on man you are really floundering here. Money is NOT evil or sell out. It just is.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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frenchmagi Loyal user 264 Posts |
I'm not the judge, I just have a different opinion than you. Like I've said before, there's a difference between making money and selling out. In the arts, it's imperative to know the difference, because -- IN MY OPINION -- art suffers when money becomes the motivator and not the creation of the artist. All that I'm saying is that I have more respect for people who refuse to be corporate puppets, than those who'll sacrifice everything just to drive a nice car.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
So he is now a corporate puppet?
Where is there any evidence of this? As I said I am not a big supporter of his, but corporate puppet? NO WAY. How is his act any different now that he has corporate money>? Is he less him? Not to me he isn't. You seem to associate money with sell out and it is not the truth. When you get corporate money (I have corporate sponsors by the way) the important thing is that they buy into YOUR philisophy, not to buy into yours. THIS is how every person I know with corporate money behind them behaves. It is when people make assumptions, like you have, that it gets murkey. Many times people have a vision that only can be afforded once there IS corporate money. So it looks like a sell out, but was the vision all along. Perhaps you should stop judging others, and simply enjoy his magic as you used too. Stop making unfounded assumptions and accusations and take it for what it is. Entertainment.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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FatTony Regular user Dallas, Texas 121 Posts |
You're right, it is entertainment. I just see it as Criss accomplishing his dreams just like you or I would like to. He had the vision and ambition to make it this far, so I think he deserves what he gets.
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. - Einstein
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frenchmagi Loyal user 264 Posts |
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Perhaps you should stop being so defensive and take a second to try to see where I coming from. Regardless, unlike you, I can respect you think differently than I. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
To understand where you are comming from is tough. You seem to change opinions pretty freequently. You defend Criss to the death, till he makes a lot of money then you are his biggest detractor.
A 180 degree difference in opinion baised soley on MONEY. Go figure. How can I respect an opinion that changes for no reason? At least mine has been consistant.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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frenchmagi Loyal user 264 Posts |
Re-read my posts, I don't think you quite understand what I've written.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I do.
You feel anyone who takes money for shows is a sell out once they surpass your subscribed level. As Lee indicated you must absolutly hate NASCAR. When opinions are baised on MONEY it gets murkey. Money does not mean sell out. Re read what I said about that and maybe it will clear it up for you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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frenchmagi Loyal user 264 Posts |
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On 2006-02-26 21:24, Dannydoyle wrote: |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Well clear it up.
seems jealous is all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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EvanTheMagicMan Regular user 109 Posts |
Personally I think that Chris has put some pretty cool efeects out there but I have heard that many of his effects cannot be done in real life. Like I said he has some pretty cooll tricks and all but I am not one of his huge fans.
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thePyramidWithin New user 97 Posts |
Yeah...chris angel has great effects...but why does he have to stick out his chest and cross his legs everytime he performs them?
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whizzomagic Regular user Louisville, Ky 109 Posts |
I'm not a fan of Criss Angel, or David Blaine for that matter. I don't really respect guys who use stooges in their performances, especially on the street.
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KaydoWhoa New user Keystone Heights, Florida 90 Posts |
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On 2006-03-16 00:18, whizzomagic wrote: Why not? Heres my line of thinking... It is magic made for t.v...it's a t.v show...to entertain a t.v audience..why would it matter how he gets it done? As long as the public finds an entertainment value in the show ..i don't think anything is wrong with it in this situation.. Isn't that are jobs..to entertain.. although ive never had someone explain to me in depth why this bugs them and maybe I'm a moron that doesn't understand but I would like someone to lay it down for me because I have yet been able to "get it" |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Ok let me help.
in detail let me first say that I despise tricks where the only solution to the trick is the right one. Further when it is OBVIOUSLY the right one it is really poor routining. The use of stooges is fine. I have no problem with it. It has been part of our venerable art since at LEAST Blackstone Sr. and certianly holds a proper place. When a stooge is the only answer, via levitating an alleged stranger, and it is OBVIOUS, then it ruins magic on many levels in my opinion. When people answer the question so easily it removes the mystery. It puts them in the position of finding out how the trick is done. They become disappointed with magic in general and this is a bad thing. So using stooges or camera tricks, great just be subtle is all. Cris from my understanding is a fantastically talented magician. Only problem is on his TV specials he has shown off more of the talents of his editing team. So in short I have no problems with camera tricks. I have no problem with the use of stooges. Heck I have no problem with guns. It is simply the way in which these things are used that bothers me. If you have ever seen Harry Andersons "Hello Sucker" special you see 2 fantastic examples of what I mean. ONE of stooging, ONE of camera editing. 99% of people never even knew. It was brilliant. Hope this clears things up a lttle.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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thePyramidWithin New user 97 Posts |
hasn't anyone thought of this?
I'm sorry but I will repost and say that Chris angel has no great effects. here's why: I'm on t.v and I walk up to a spectator and make a friggin dinosoaur appear. that's amazing. And we have some people who will say "oh that's t.v magic" no it's not t.v magic,it's not even magic. it's camera editing. the use of stooges? the use of stooges is great if they help you accomplish an effect. but not when the stooge itself is the spectator the magic is being performed on. I'm on t.v and walk up to stooge "think of a card...you have one...you're thinking of the 8ofhearts" that's amazing. but not really. |
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georgecha New user 15 Posts |
He is genius!!
He is musican and magician!! He is confident when performing his magic>>
Entertaining YOU always
www.askmrgeorge.blogspot.com |
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