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Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
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On 2006-01-18 03:41, JasonEngland wrote: Well, I wasn't cocky enough to leave a blank space between Steve and Gary.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Best second and bottom on video - John Scarne in the movie the Sting and in a film for Castle films.
Best I have seen in real life. Jack Pyle, Ed Marlo, Dai Vernon, Billy Bishop, Carl Jackson and Jimmy "Cards" Molinari - Who does "Scarne" seconds.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
The problem I have is that I haven't actually "seen" a lot of guys do this stuff in person. I can only judge from video/dvd, and I don't think that's the best way to judge this sort of thing. Most of you guys up above have been in this business (magic?) for a lot longer than me, and thus have been able to see people work in person. I envy you! On tape, though: Steve Forte looks great, David Malek looks great too, and the stuff in the "Shade" opening credits looks really nice.
tjo'
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Tony Noice Veteran user 342 Posts |
Oddly enough, no one has mentioned Francis Carlyle. He was the only one I have ever seen who could deal imperceptible seconds from a BORDERED deck with the spectator on his right with a full view of the entire deck. All the other experts mentioned, at least those I have seen in person, do great seconds from the left or front where the top surface is only partially visible. From the right, a spectator who watches closely will see the white borders cross each other. All the mentioned experts do imperceptible seconds from any angle with Bees or similar. Francis had a style of working that made very fast dealing permissible and his speed was such that you actually couldn't spot the give-away white border as the second card emerged. But only someone with Francis's quirky style could make the speed at which he dealt seem normal.
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
From what I hear Francis Carlyle did a lot of amazing things. I think the problem is that most people around here have never seen him work. In person or otherwise. I know I'd love to see him work but wouldn't even know where to start to find any film on him. If it even exists. But I know from what I've heard and read that he was one of the great cardmen.
Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Tony Noice Veteran user 342 Posts |
Francis was a good friend of mine -- he died some years ago. You can see some great effects of his in the original STARS OF MAGIC. There is also a book on his work but I havn't seen it.
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-18 00:10, KidCrenshaw wrote: I'm sure if you asked he'd make you an omelette. He'd probably hock an oyster in there for ya too, lil' feller.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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KidCrenshaw Special user USA 537 Posts |
Hehe, yes I was being a bit catty.
I mean no disrespect, I have just honestly never seen anything like the GPS series. To be capable of all that technique is just mind-numbing. Ortiz is fantastic - yes. uite brilliant really. But if I say all that (which I have hundreds of times before), I don't get to be cat-like. "lil' feller", that's hilarious when I think about it being said in an Aussie accent.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
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iamslow Inner circle Proffessional Slacker 2001 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-18 15:24, KidCrenshaw wrote: Hey whats up Kid Crenshaw?? I think the reason why Steve Forte moves the way he does when demonstrating such moves is because he used to be a dealer (dice) and that's the speed the moves should be conducted on a live game...Ive posted it before time and time again about most magicians that are into gambling sleight of hand... Many concentrate too much on technique that they forget the other important things like how to deal properly....if you compare the GPS series to other tapes, you will notice forte pitching cards while doing seconds instead of dealing it down onto the table in a circle like most... I think learning how to deal poker well is the best step, because adding on the shady moves is a lot easier.. just my 2 cents.
"Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
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PapaG Special user 851 Posts |
I would love to know the REAL Steve Forte story...
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ImpromptuBoy Special user Toronto, Canada 898 Posts |
Ed Marlo.
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Silly Walter the Polar Bear Special user 506 Posts |
Just like Pete Biro, I too know some guys that are working and many that have moved. I remember the time I watched "Lippy" Douglas fleece a bunch of poker guys at the VFW (he was peeking and deuce dealing). Doesn't sound impressive until you hear that Lippy had let them win a couple of times before so he went in to clean house and walked away with about 3 bills.
Another guy I knew named Felix was an expert at whip shots and switching in the tees. He also hustled pool but unfortunately for him he dumped any of his earnings at the track. He loved horse racing and was terrible at it !! Felix had a "cousin" named Brad and he was one of the best base dealers I had met. I would know when Brad had a good night because he would treat us to Jack In The Box after he came home the big winner from poker. Recently I had the worst nightmare. I was asked to play poker with three of the most excellent sleight of hand guys and card table artifice cheating knowledge guys and here I sit facing three legends - Keops, Lovell and Sal the Hitman. I looked at them and said "I'd hate to play cards with you" and just walked out before I got myself hooked into a game I had no chance of winning. |
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Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
^ [sarcasm/]
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-01-18 17:13, iamslow wrote: Good dealers are dexterous because all they do is handle cards and checks 8 hours a day, 5 days a week. Executing demanding gaming sleights is another matter altogether. I have many friends who're dealers and when you try to explain the mechanics of a 2nd deal, for example, they're as dumbstruck as most laymen. That said, I do agree with you to an extent. A top-notch "clerk" exhibits a beautiful rhythm, mainly due to the speedy and efficient way in which they conform to said dealing procedures. Magicians could certainly learn from it, i.e. keeping their shuffles fast and smooth, learning to pitch the cards properly, and so on.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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Steve Bryant New user 1 Post |
Check the new Marlo dvds It's All in the Cards from David Solomon. Marlo's dealing and everything else he does on the dvds was awesome.
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KidCrenshaw Special user USA 537 Posts |
Hey I am slow - check out the October 2005 issue of Genii for a superb article and interview with Forte. If you haven't read it, it's definitely worth the $5 - $6 to get it.
"Put your faith in Providence, but always cut the cards"
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The Dowser Special user Canada 763 Posts |
Having seen almost everyone mentioned in this thread ,and certainley everyone whose name is repeated , I respectfully submit that the best second deal I've ever seen was at the hands of Ed Marlo , and the best bottom deal was at the hands of Steve Forte .
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
Hello Dowser. Welcome to the board. I've only seen Ed Marlo deal seconds on film. It looked incredible to me.
Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Andrei Veteran user Romania 353 Posts |
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To be capable of all that technique is just mind-numbing. Not to mention the bag of chips. Andrei |
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The Dowser Special user Canada 763 Posts |
Thanks Vandy ,
Things were slow at the scoundrels forum so I stopped in .You caught my first post on this forum about the instant I posted it , I'm impressed. Just to qualify my statement about having "seen" almost everyone in this thread ... I was including on video and not just in person ; although I consider myself very licky to have seen Steve Forte demonstrate his in person ... what a great guy . We spent about four hours together one day before I had to report for my shift at the casino . Time was running late and Steve offered me a ride to the casino and on the way there he continued to show me card moves with his hands while he drove with his knees on the steering wheel . How wonderfully terrifying ! |
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