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Moderncelt
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Twin Cities MN
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Scot

120(size of a standard cd)/74.25 (size of the spots in Ian's tutorial to cover a cd)= 1.6161~ so the larger spot is 1.6161 times larger than any one of the individual spots. So I just multiplied 120 times the ratio and got my number.

To answer your question, I plan on using the standard 5 disks to cover.
nostromo
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Yup- that's what I got, too, using the Montana state law that the dropped discs be no less than 64% of the larger disk. I forget where, but I read somewhere that complete coverage is impossible with a ratio less than about %61.

Problem with using CD's is that they are VERY light and don't drop straight even though there's a hole through the middle. Not as easy to 'control' compared to the heavier zinc disks. Another problem is that the body of the CD's are clear plastic, so that the edges are clear and make it confusing to see exactly where the CD edge touches the spot. "I got all the red covered". "No you don;t I can still see red". Rrrrrr. I gave up on CD labels since they don't go all the way to the edge and used spray paint instead. Finally, a minor consideration when dropping is that the CD's are as thick or thicker than the metal discs yet their diameter is much smaller, so there's a bit more 'lift angle' when they are atop the other CD's. Greater tendency to 'bounce' lower along that plane when dropping, or 'slide' when other discs drop.

There are several carnival game books that include "The Scientific Circles" as well as weight guessing, shooting waters, balloon darts, razzle games, screw pool, etc. Try an Amazon search. Love these carnival games! I helped Bruce Walstad at SEAM and was able to proudly tell the folks buying his lecture materialsm (like the Carnival Games book) that my six year old was able to win three NICE stuffed animals by HIMSELF at Six Flags Atlanta just by Dad knowing which games to play and how.

With practice, I'd play 'Cover the Spot' (on a WOOD or METAL board) or the 'Pop Bottle lift' if the prizes and price were right, as opposed to almost any other game on a carnival midway. Or any of the games where you are competing against other players and you just wait for few players. Or any of the 'hanky panks; like 'Pitch till you win' or 'Duck Pond' for the little ones who are just hapy t oplay anything and win a prize- even if it's slum worth far less than the cost of play. Forget the peach baskets, ring toss, dime toss, flukey ball, phhhtt. No chance.

The pattern that seems to work is:
- Top of the large circle first with the two 'pivot points' (where disc edges touch the large spot's border) at exactly the midpoints of the first disc.
- Next disc is to one side with the upper 'pivot point' being where the first disc touches the spot's edge, and the second point along the lower edge of the first disc at a point just past the midpoint of the center of the spot.
- Third disc is a mirror image of the first - you've got it right when the overlapping edges of the second and third discs form an 'ellipse' in the middle of the spot, kinda like this ().
- Fourth disc below the second or third disc with the main 'pivot point' being where the upper disc touches the spot edge then trying to line up at TWO points: as far along the spot edge and as far along the upper disc as possible. Where you cover as much real estate as possible. (Does that make sense?)
- The last disc trying to cover as much red as possible.

Break a leg!
nostromo
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Yup- that's what I got, too, using the Montana state law that the dropped discs be no less than 64% of the larger disk. I forget where, but I read somewhere that complete coverage is impossible with a ratio less than about %61.

Problem with using CD's is that they are VERY light and don't drop straight even though there's a hole through the middle. Not as easy to 'control' compared to the heavier zinc disks. Another problem is that the body of the CD's are clear plastic, so that the edges are clear and make it confusing to see exactly where the CD edge touches the spot. "I got all the red covered". "No you don;t I can still see red". Rrrrrr. I gave up on CD labels since they don't go all the way to the edge and used spray paint instead. Finally, a minor consideration when dropping is that the CD's are as thick or thicker than the metal discs yet their diameter is much smaller, so there's a bit more 'lift angle' when they are atop the other CD's. Greater tendency to 'bounce' lower along that plane when dropping, or 'slide' when other discs drop.

There are several carnival game books that include "The Scientific Circles" as well as weight guessing, shooting waters, balloon darts, razzle games, screw pool, etc. Try an Amazon search. Love these carnival games! I helped Bruce Walstad at SEAM and was able to proudly tell the folks buying his lecture materialsm (like the Carnival Games book) that my six year old was able to win three NICE stuffed animals by HIMSELF at Six Flags Atlanta just by Dad knowing which games to play and how.

With practice, I'd play 'Cover the Spot' (on a WOOD or METAL board) or the 'Pop Bottle lift' if the prizes and price were right, as opposed to almost any other game on a carnival midway. Or any of the games where you are competing against other players and you just wait for few players. Or any of the 'hanky panks; like 'Pitch till you win' or 'Duck Pond' for the little ones who are just hapy t oplay anything and win a prize- even if it's slum worth far less than the cost of play. Forget the peach baskets, ring toss, dime toss, flukey ball, phhhtt. No chance.

The pattern that seems to work is:
- Top of the large circle first with the two 'pivot points' (where disc edges touch the large spot's border) at exactly the midpoints of the first disc.
- Next disc is to one side with the upper 'pivot point' being where the first disc touches the spot's edge, and the second point along the lower edge of the first disc at a point just past the midpoint of the center of the spot.
- Third disc is a mirror image of the first - you've got it right when the overlapping edges of the second and third discs form an 'ellipse' in the middle of the spot, kinda like this ().
- Fourth disc below the second or third disc with the main 'pivot point' being where the upper disc touches the spot edge then trying to line up at TWO points: as far along the spot edge and as far along the upper disc as possible. Where you cover as much real estate as possible. (Does that make sense?)
- The last disc trying to cover as much red as possible.

Break a leg!
wally
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Where can I buy this game cover the spot. or how do I make it. thanks.
gump
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Here's one place that sells a version of the "Cover the Spot" game:

http://www.jacksgames.com/coverthespot.html
tim_mantis
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I just saw a cover the spot operator at Hull Fair (supposedly Europe's largest travelling fair) last night using a really nice setup with a smiley face to cover with metal discs. There was a light under the face just in case anybody got too close to winning the £20 prize (it cost £2 per try); if the gaps weren't visible, the operator would turn on the light and reveal the tiny spots of light shining through the gaps.

Anybody seen this before? I'd love to get one!
MagicSanta
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Man....that is a guy who doesn't want to lose...
DStachowiak
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Darwin Ortiz's "Gmbling Scams", p.186, has a discussion of "Spot the Spot" operated as an alibi store, ungaffed but next to impossible to win unless it's all you do all day.
Walter Gibson's "Bunko Book" was originally sold with a companion booklet on Carnival Gaffs (I'm not sure, but the title may have actually been "Carnival Gaffs", I just remember it having a yellow cover) in which he describes gaffing the game by having the red spots painted on oilcloth, which hung down over the back of the counter and was tacked to a wooden bar, The game operator could put his foot on the bar and stretch the spots minutely, making them impossible to cover.
"Scarne's Complete Guide to Gambling" describes the ungaffed version, reaching basically the same conclusion that Darwin Ortiz does.
Simon Lovell's "Billion Dollar Bunko Book", (also available in paperback as "How to Cheat at Practically Everything") describes the game gaffed with different sized or oddly shaped disks.
Obviously, many game operators have shown a great deal of ingenuity in their approach to this game, imparting their own twists.
Woke up.
Fell out of bed.
Dragged a comb across m' head.
sethb
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Quote:
On 2007-10-14 12:43, tim_mantis wrote: I just saw a cover the spot operator at Hull Fair (supposedly Europe's largest travelling fair) last night using a really nice setup with a smiley face to cover with metal discs. There was a light under the face just in case anybody got too close to winning the £20 prize (it cost £2 per try); if the gaps weren't visible, the operator would turn on the light and reveal the tiny spots of light shining through the gaps.

Wow, talk about "never giving a sucker an even break," this setup takes the cake!! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
tim_mantis
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Quote:
On 2007-11-02 09:51, sethb wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-10-14 12:43, tim_mantis wrote: I just saw a cover the spot operator at Hull Fair (supposedly Europe's largest travelling fair) last night using a really nice setup with a smiley face to cover with metal discs. There was a light under the face just in case anybody got too close to winning the £20 prize (it cost £2 per try); if the gaps weren't visible, the operator would turn on the light and reveal the tiny spots of light shining through the gaps.

Wow, talk about "never giving a sucker an even break," this setup takes the cake!! SETH


Yeah, that's what I thought initially, but thinking about it, this is does make sense if the game is in a dark corner of a fairground as this was. The gaps by which the punters lose are often really tiny so this is just a nice way of showing them up!

Tim
IanKendall
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He He. I'd love to see a game in action...

Take care, Ian
gmonty3
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An old time carny first broke me in on this game in 1973 at an amusement park in White Lake, NC. A man and his wife Charles and Alice had joints side by side at Goldston’s Beach. Charles ran the Cover the Spot and Alice had the joint right next to her husband, but I can’t remember what game she operated. Charles made me a proposition that if I could find him some new disks that he would show me the joint. I immediately started looking in Lumberton, the closest town of any size. I found a sheet metal shop and the metal crafter had some sheets of zinc that he had left over from covering science tables at a local high school. He told me to bring him one of Charles’s disks as a pattern and that he would make as many new disks as I wanted. The metal crafter knew exactly what he was doing and took an awl and scored around the pattern. Then, as I watched, he cut out the disks with a pair of airplane sheers. I remember that this amazed me at the time as to how uniform he could cut each disk. I’m sure that today any such disks would be cut by a machine.

So any way, back to the joint. Charles first told me to practice so that I could cover the red correctly as many times as possible. But he also taught me how to “shade” so that the mark would think that I had completely covered the red, even when I missed. So yes guys, there is a “gaff” to this joint. Charles also taught me several other moves to con the mark that amount to what all of you magicians would call “slight of hand”.

This may be hard to find unless you go to a large library, but the September 1961 issue of "Scientific American" had an article on this game. I remember that the author stated that the disks and the red spot were a direct proportion. In other words, if one had 5-disks of the correct size, one could cover a Ferris wheel if the disks were placed properly.
IanKendall
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Yep - the Scientific American article was probably by Martin Gardner - he had a section on the game in one of his books (I forget which one) where he gives a formula for placing the first disk.

The ratio between the large and small disks is important, and if you have that you can make a set in any size.

Take care, Ian
gmonty3
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Hey guys, I just found an online version of the Spot the Spot Game.

http://www.smart-kit.com/games/game2
"Muggs"
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Thanks for the recent posts gmonte3 and Ian. This is my favorite carnival game con. Does anyone know a source for getting the game or does everyone make their own? Also does anyone know or have the articles? Gmonte3 that online version is great, thanks for the link.

Muggs
IanKendall
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I made a video lesson on the game a while back, which I believe is the only one. It's now part of the Virtual Sessions. I go over the pattern, how to make it surefire and the dimentions of the discs so you can make your own.

There are a couple of places in the States that sell the board without instructions.

Take care, Ian
gmonty3
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Hey Muggs, Check out this link to a Carnival Game Supplier.

http://www.redboneproducts.com/secure/sh......emid=359

Good Luck,

Monty
Nicholas J. Johnson
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I have seen two versions of this - one where you have DROP the discs onto the spot and the other where you simply place the discs down.

I assume the different that one is next to impossible and the other is just tricky.
gmonty3
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The ad in the link that I left for Muggs above states that one can order boards with the red at 6 and 7/8, 7 and 7 and 1/8 inches. Believe me this has a lot to do with it. The disks sold here could be slightly larger than mine, but I measured my boards and the red is only 6 and 5/8 inches.

Remember this is a direct proportion!

Monty
"Muggs"
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Gmonty, thanks for the link, I appreciate it. There are some great resources on this thread for Spot the Spot. I've check all of them out. Ian Kendalls info and site are highly recommended. He has a lot of other great material on the site on cards and coins. He, like us, also has a side interest in this game and did great research on the topic.

Muggs
John Breeds
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My friend, Mark Finnis, pointed me in the right direction. If you want to know exactly how large to make the discs... and how to do it, try this link:

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/DiskCoveringProblem.html

John
twistedace
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Ian Kendall and Alan Wong have released Cover the Spot- DVD and disks. I just ordered it and I can't wait to add this to my gambling show!
twistedace
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This DVD /spot set is excellent. The spots are high quality, durable plastic that can be used literally anywhere. The DVD got straight to the point. There aren't shots of a guy wearing sunglasses and ripped jeans in an alley to blaring techno music. It's straightforward and teaches you the real "work" on the Cover the Spot game. Even after watching the DVD,I quickly realized that operating the game will take lots of practice to do it smoothly and effortlessly. Ian's teaching style was very relaxed and I could immediately tell that he has been doing this for a long time. I highly recommend this product to anyone wanting to add a new game to their gambling show!
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