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johnra
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I have a question about tossed out decks. I'm not looking for the best one or anything or I'd post it in the review sections. I have been trying to study tossed out decks and I would like to know if anyone has ever created one with a regular deck or even an impromtu tossed out deck?
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Cory Gallupe
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Well, whats a tossed out deck???
NeoMagic
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^ defined by our very own Larry Davidson as,

"... a stage or parlor mentalism effect where the magician places a rubber band around a deck of cards, tosses the deck into the audience, three spectators each peek at a card, the last spectator tosses the deck back to the magician, and without even looking at the deck the magician names all three cards..."

... and variations thereof
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Bill Hallahan
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Yes, people have created their own decks.

The original routine was created by David Hoy. Gazzo has a nice handling.

Tossed Out Deck?
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nique
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Max Maven's handling of this is worth checking out. It's on his Videomind series. Lots of thinking behind it.
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Michaels
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Wayne Dobson's routine is also worthy of a peek. The effect has a nice crescendo.
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Kaylan
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I second Michaels' opinion re: Wayne Dobson's version, which you can see on his Unclamped: Live in London DVD.


:) Kaylan

PS...It's not very hard to make your own deck - the whole thing is really about how you present it.
LobowolfXXX
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I actually have a monster impromptu tossed-out deck effect that works for 52 spectators at once. I have heard it argued, however, that it gets a bit montonous and may give the effect away to the astute spectator. Similarly, I have a "turbo-flustration" count that shows 52-as-1, and works with a borrowed deck, seemingly turning it into a one-way force deck; this has, however, encountered the same criticisms.
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johnra
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Lol lobowolfxxx I agree you'd have to be pretty bored not to catch what's going on after the fortyith or so time. As for the rest of you this is getting awesome results please keep it coming. I know the Hoy method and Max Maven's method, and I like both. In fact you can basically do Hoy's method in a much cleaner way with a Svengali deck. Since the Svengali I got was from a dollar store {just for a practice Svengali}I figure most others will have this also, but the cards were rough and smooth so you could fan them and show a regular deck. You can use the same Hoy presentation for that. Max Maven's I like and don't like. I like it because it's a tossed out deck, but it requires fishing and I don't like that while he gives a few outs to make it seem like your not fishing you still are. I'm looking for the ones that are straight forward and you can just go wham bam thank you mama without fishing.
Thanks for all advice and whats to come.

I'm sorry in advance lobowolfxxx if you were not kidding. I just wanted to ask where can the Dobson version be found. I heard it was in unclammped and Dobson's choice, but I dunno where to get them and if I end up getting one which one Unclammped or the Dobsonss choice the sequal book?
John
P.S. I'm most likely only going to get one thing for the time being so I'm trying to make the best choice.
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Larry Davidson
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Wayne Dobson's version is great. To learn all of the nuances of Wayne's routine, I recommend that you purchase his Unclamped DVD instead of the booklet in which it appears, Dobson's Choice 2- the Sequel. That's not to say that the booklet isn't good...in fact, I recommend all three of his booklets.

Larry
Kaylan
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I got my Unclamped from Stevens.

:)
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On 2006-02-07 07:49, johnra wrote:
Im sorry in advance lobowolfxxx if you were not kidding.



Have no fear! That post was, of course, entirely tongue-in-cheek.
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Thoughtreader
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Harry Anderson's routine in "Wise Guy" is brilliant and is well worth studying if you are considering performing this effect.
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johnra
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Phue I'm glad I didn't offend you. Thanks for the help. Anymore suggestions or information about any tossed out decks? I guess its fairly new news nowa days about the Tossed Out Deck and it doesn't seem like theres actually that many. Let's see Gazzos,Cody Fishers,Doc Hilford, David Hoy, Max Maven, Wayne Dobson,& Harry Anderson. Do all of these use "Trick" Decks" and are there any I missed? What's the history of the effect? Is it just traced to Hoy and the chains started. The reason I'm trying to find out all this information is because I've devised my own version and I don't want it to be something already done. If all the other Tossed Out Decks use close to Hoy's method which Mavens does and I hear Gazzos does and I'm sure Dobsons most likely does the Hilford version does, I dunno if its just Harry's presentation or what but I'd imagine it also does? I think this is a great topic and it really gets my brain into gear and helps me figure out if my method is original or not.
Thanks in advance for any more advice and what was already given.

Well Thanks all for your inquiries I guess when you tell someone you created an effect evryone loses intrest. But this had a good run and Im happy I gotta few wrinkles in my brain on what to get.
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jecar
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Quote:
On 2006-02-07 07:28, johnra wrote:

<snip>

I know the Hoy method and max mavens method and I like both in fact you can basically do hoys method in a much cleaner way with a Svengali deck. Since the Svengali I got was from a dollar store{just for a practice Svengali}I figure most others will have this also but the cards were rough and smooth so you could fan them and show a regular deck. You can use the same Hoy presentation for that.

<snip>

John


John,

I'm puzzled at how you can do the Hoy method in a much cleaner way, using a Svengali deck. To me, this would pit the 'hands off by magician/mentalist' against the 'hands on ONLY by the magician/mentalist'. It seems to me, that if the performer didn't need to handle the cards, it would be much cleaner. Then you also have, with the TOD, the number of cards seen by the spectator*s*, versus the one card saw by *a* spectator, using the SD, which is a superior feature, in my opinion.

Also, in my opinion, the 'Tossed Out Deck' is much cleaner than the 'Svengali Deck' because of the ease in using it. It just can't get any easier than to simply toss a deck out and have several folks glimpse a card, pass the deck on to have a couple of others do the same thing and then hand the deck back to you. In fact, the performer really never needs to touch the cards...how clean is that? ;-)

I don't see how you could do the same Hoy effect with the cards you mentioned. Maybe I just missed something, which wouldn't be the first time. ;-))

Cheers,

Jerry
..
Larry Davidson
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A Svengali Deck can be used for the TOD effect and tossed out to a number of spectators. Some would say that the "advantage" of using the deck for this effect is that the cards can first be shown to be all different, as johnra mentioned.
johnra
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Yep yep, In max mavens dvd with the tossed out tech trick in it he explained hoys method and how he revamped it. Now I was watching the maven performance and he explains to just open the deck and peek a card well you could also tell them how you want them to hold the deck in order to peek and then hoys method can be applied.
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John Long
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Jecar

I'm not clear about your concerns about the use of the SD

1) If there is a rubber band around the deck and the spec is shown how to riffle thru the deck, the magician doesn't have to handle it.

2) Merge multiple SD's to allow multiple choices

3) As pointed out, the rough/smooth allows you to show the deck to be normal.

John
jecar
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Quote:
On 2006-02-11 20:32, John Long wrote:
Jecar

I'm not clear about your concerns about the use of the SD

1) If there is a rubber band around the deck and the spec is shown how to riffle thru the deck, the magician doesn't have to handle it.

2) Merge multiple SD's to allow multiple choices

3) As pointed out, the rough/smooth allows you to show the deck to be normal.

John


Hi John,

Point number 3 is what threw me off. A normal SD is not r/s, a r/s SD is called a Mirage Deck, at least that's what Haine's House of Cards call them. Perhaps other manufacturers call them something else.

Anyway, I am sorry I missed the point of the deck you speak about is better than a normal TOD and I agree with you, now that I understand better. In fact, putting together multible r/s SDs (point 2) is another point that I missed, I now can now see how it is much better than a regular TOD. Thanks for straightening me out.

Jerry
..
noumena
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The Cassandra Deck by Doc Hillford can be ribon spread if you like. The other arguable advantage is that you name the though of cards to the individual spectator. That is not possible with the original tossed out deck by David Hoy or many other versions. You can also perform this version for up to 6-8 people.

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JHodgeCMI
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Don't forget Richard Osterlind's Radar Deck!
Howard Coberly
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I'm familiar with the tossed out deck and I also with tricks like John Kennedy's "Mind Power Deck". My question to those of you who use the TOD regularly is this: Do you feel that the TOD is superior to those methods wherein the magician must ask certain questions before naming the spectator's card??

In my personal opinion, I believe that to ask questions before naming the card is a definite giveaway that the magician doesn't know the card exactly and must "fish" for the right card. I have used the Mind Power deck and have seen it used by other magicians to great response (so, maybe the questions are not a giveaway??). While I have never used the TOD in performance, I have seen it also get great responses.

What do you think????
Thanks, Howard
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Pete Biro
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Tamariz doesn't need a force deck. Think about it, based on what he's published.
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paisa23
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Quote:
On 2006-02-06 20:40, nique wrote:
Max Maven's handling of this is worth checking out. It's on his Videomind series. Lots of thinking behind it.


Which one(Volume)
Foxbiz
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The original question was to an imprompto deck... I can offer nothing there....

As to nice routines, Paul Gertner ends his TOD with revealing the 3 thought of cards are the only cards he has left in his hand. It's in his lecture notes from 5 years ago. He uses it in his trade show routines. Good stuff

Lynn Fox
Magicpitch
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David Regal's "In Flight" doesn't require the typical switch. I'm quite fond of that version myself. Often times I'm wearing jeans and a t-shirt, so the "business" that has to be taken care of leaves me no where to take care of it. That's why I like Regal's version. Start and end with the same deck.

Steve
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Martino
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John Archer's version has the spectators completely examine and shuffle the deck first. It can be found on his 2 DVD set "Educating Archer". This is also a hilarious comedy routine. John's tips are worth their weight in gold to the real performer!

Martino.
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Thoughtreader
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Jack Dean came up with "Bagatelle" which uses baggage tags with the names of cities and countries instead of playing cards. It is a refreshing change.
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Decomposed
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Quote:
On 2006-02-07 07:28, johnra wrote:
Lol lobowolfxxx I agree you'd have to be pretty bored not to catch what's going on after the fortyith or so time. As for the rest of you this is getting awesome results please keep it coming. I know the Hoy method and Max Maven's method, and I like both. In fact you can basically do Hoy's method in a much cleaner way with a Svengali deck. Since the Svengali I got was from a dollar store {just for a practice Svengali}I figure most others will have this also, but the cards were rough and smooth so you could fan them and show a regular deck. You can use the same Hoy presentation for that. Max Maven's I like and don't like. I like it because it's a tossed out deck, but it requires fishing and I don't like that while he gives a few outs to make it seem like your not fishing you still are. I'm looking for the ones that are straight forward and you can just go wham bam thank you mama without fishing.
Thanks for all advice and whats to come.

I'm sorry in advance lobowolfxxx if you were not kidding. I just wanted to ask where can the Dobson version be found. I heard it was in unclammped and Dobson's choice, but I dunno where to get them and if I end up getting one which one Unclammped or the Dobsonss choice the sequal book?
John
P.S. I'm most likely only going to get one thing for the time being so I'm trying to make the best choice.


Funny how the simpliest of all ideas (Svengali) could be the strongest. This would be easy to pull off if it works (single card idea) but I don't want to elaborate here on the open forum. Nice idea!

Candini
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The Svengali or "long and short" principle has been used quite a bit in the past. Al Baker has an excellent deck that can be shown front and back and will force two different cards.

Both the Telematic and the Psychomatic decks marketed a few years back work great as well.

Marv Long published his effect "Tossed Way Out". 5 people pick cards and you name off 4. 4 People sit down and one is left standing. A prediction is opened to reveal the exact card of the person left standing. No multiple out and no guess work. You really know what card they are thinking of.

Similar in effect to the recent David Ben handling but different method.

All the best,

Kranzo
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