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Psychic Samurai
Eternal Order
Singapore
10593 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 7:04am
I met Chris a while back before the TV shows. I liked him then. My attitude is changing. This interview didn't help.
http://penn.freefm.com/
Chris Angel in the Studio interview.
Especially go to minute 7 and listen for a couple of minutes and then to minute 13 for a few more. If you have the time please listen to the whole thing so you have it in context.
The Masked Magician, James Randi, Penn and Teller and now Chris Angel.
But no problem....He doesn't give a **** what I think anyway.
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CarlD
Regular user
111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 7:20am
Hi Slim. Can you give me any indication of the content of the parts you mean? I've listened to it all and haven't heard anything wrong?
CarlD
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salsa_dancer
Inner circle
1910 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 7:33am
Yeah, can you sum it up as I am too lazy to listen. Lordy, imagine that? I am actually too lazy to listen to something, that is like the easiest thing in the world to do.
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Psychic Samurai
Eternal Order
Singapore
10593 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 7:46am
You must listen for yourself! It's an easy download. Listen for words like Most Magicians, Cheesy, Hokey...You'll get the picture.
If he thinks so little of us, why is he selling products to us cheesy/hokey magicians???...$$$
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CarlD
Regular user
111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 7:48am
LOL! Salsa. Do you have a problem? Seriously, that was amongst the rudest, most ignorant and un-called for comments I have seen on the forum. If you look very closely you'll see that I say that I did listen to the show (in fact twice), but wanted Slim to say what he found so offensive, as I heard nothing at all that was even remotely wrong. Seemed like a fair question to me? Or is that not allowed in the embittered and lonely place you call your mind?
I've looked at many of your other posts and, as I was warned on joining, that you seem to have a certain arrogant eagerness (mentioned more than once here) to try and leap on people and belittle them at every opportunity, especially those you believe to be newcomers; usually without even reading the posts that you're responding to fully. Congrat's for playing to form!
I would have expected someone from the 'inner circle' to ask first and post second.
Please, visit your nearest mental health practitioner immediately - or perhaps get yourself a real life? It might help.
CarlD
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Psychic Samurai
Eternal Order
Singapore
10593 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 7:56am
Carl...Is someone called "Most Journalists", as you claim to be, Hokey..Cheesy...and someone who's opinion didn't count, as in I don't give a **** what they think.....Would you then SEE something wrong?
Wake up!
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Spinnato
Veteran user
370 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 7:56am
Sounded like an **** kissing contest to me!
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bobser
Inner circle
3060 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 7:58am
He's actually worse when he's dancing. He sticks out his chest and everything!
Bobser
based in UK. pro magician/mentalist & hypnotist.
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salsa_dancer
Inner circle
1910 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 8:01am
Oh, CarlD, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside. My mental health issue is clearly outweighed by your own as I was merely referring to the fact that I was too lazy to listen to it. In fact, to date, I still haven't listened to it.
You seem very tense and wound up. You will end up like Bobser if you are not careful.
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CarlD
Regular user
111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 8:10am
I think you're being far too touchy Slim. I heard ALL of those comments and think nothing of any of them. It's only one man's personal opinion, who cares? Just don't buy his products.
I'm with Spinnato. A bit of nonsense. So what if he thinks that we're not as clever or important as we believe ourselves to be?
If anyone called Journo's cheesey (or mean-spirited, or devious, conniving or any other name you can think of) I would be adult enough to say that on the whole you were right. I see nothing wrong with personal comment. Even Salsa has a right to say what he did - and I have an equal right to defend myself.
So, all this aside, I think we have the makings of a good thread here. Why do you thnk he said what he did? What reason do you think was behind it, taken within the context of the interview?
Heh, Salsa. You could be right...But so is Bobser...
CarlD
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Psychic Samurai
Eternal Order
Singapore
10593 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 8:23am
One point I'm making is that he's changed. He's joined the Penn and Teller Club. Only those with shows in Las Vegas are good Magicians. Everyone else SUCKS.
Carl...Are you a cheesy Journalist? Or does that line form ...just behind you?
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salsa_dancer
Inner circle
1910 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 8:32am
Slim, you are worrying too much. It is not like he sacrificed anyone's first born... did he?
That might explain his powers.
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CarlD
Regular user
111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 8:38am
No I actually am very cheesey - and would like to think that I take pride of place at the head of the queue. Lying and deceit and a certain amount of crapness from time to time are inherent in my trade, in just the same way as it is in Mentalism.
He didn't say that you have to play in LA or you suck, just that many mentalists are a little bit geeky about what they do. I know a couple of the pro's here and in honest moments they will say that a lot of amateur mentalists are like comic or Star Trek fans at a convention (I am both BTW, but have never managed to find time to visit a convention), in that they have odd obsessions with things that are really of no consequence. I should imagine that Chriss gets his fair share of them and is thus a little weary. If weariness were a crime, many of the names who visit here to give their time would not visit at all. Chris just made the mistake of saying what he felt on a radio station. Not the wisest thing to do, but an opinion.
CarlD
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John LeBlanc
Special user
Houston, TX
523 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 9:15am
Slim, I can't say I disagree with what he said.
Speaking of magic, he said: "...most magicians present it in a really hokey, cheesey way..."
Of course I think he was taking liberties using the word "magicians" -- I'm sure in using the word "most" he's including everyone who refers to himself as a magician.
If the world of magic were a school I think it would be fair to say magic is filled mostly with pre-schoolers who never care to move up to even first grade, let alone graduate highschool. It's not that they can't, it's that they just don't have a serious, sincere interest in doing so.
As Criss stated, "...these other guys are like sitting there doing the same old nonsense that's been done for like, you know, it's a zillion years, and it doesn't really present itself in a fresh way."
The fact is there aren't as many Criss Angels and David Copperfields and David Blaines and Penn & Tellers in the world of magic because there aren't that many magicians who are sufficiently motivated to push magic in a new direction.
It's much easier to do Don Alan's "Invisible Deck" routine verbatum, rather than study the Ultra Mental deck and what it actually does and build a great, original routine that uses it in a new way. It's much easier to say, "Hold out your hand. No the clean one. Oh, that was the clean one." and get the easy laugh, rather than spend a few days coming up with a great, original line.
In this respect, the world of magic isn't that much different than the world at large: those who achieve great things expend effort. And they don't always -- though they often do -- expend outrageous amounts of effort, but the fact that they even try puts them head and shoulders above those people who won't even belly up to the bar, let alone do something...anything!
Getting back to Criss's comments, if anyone feels tweaked by them, I say that's a good thing.
By the way, I think that interview should be listened to by every person who calls himself a magician.
John
Escamoteurettes, my blog.
"One thought fills immensity." -- William Blake
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CarlD
Regular user
111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 9:25am
Hi John. Put far more eloquently than I could muster... I agree too with your final comment.
I'm sure we all at times think that we should be given more recognition and respect from the pro's, but looking through many postings here it's easy to understand why we aren't.
As you say, only a very small handful ever get beyond just a bit of impromptu work. Nothing wrong with that of course, but we can't expect that just because we call ourselves mentalists that we should receive respect from the main players - until we EARN it.
CarlD
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J ack Galloway
Inner circle
1312 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 9:40am
Then in the same way it would be good form for me to comment on magicians such as Chris in intervuiws.
You guys know what I am talking about.
(The stooges the camera tricks more or less saying the telivition guys cannot do the real deal).
I think it would help really.
Make them look at themselfs and get better.
In fact any running down publicly from one of ours in the media runs all of us down. Good bad or other.
Make a specific attack if you have the guts to.
But don't play at a childs game like Chris feels the need to.
Heck this may be a good idea.
I have some chat shows I may be on in the end of March.
This could be a gaint hook.
Jack
H.12/O.17A-X
http://www.magicjim.net
http://www.JimClass.Com
http://jimclass.com/Lecture.htm
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Joshua Lozoff
Inner circle
Chapel Hill, NC
1214 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 10:04am
There is absolutely no loyalty issue within any true art form. In fact, a great artist is almost obligated to criticize those who he feels are mediocre representations of his art form. Do you think Mozart spoke well of othr composers? One of Brando's motivations for becoming the actor he was, was his contempt for the wooden, old-fashioned acting he saw all around him. Dylan despised the velvety Pat Boone style of crooning, and it led him to change the world with his music.
The worst thing you can do for an art is be defensive about it. It keeps you from looking honestly at it and changing it for the better. My wife hates most magic shows. She thinks they're cheesy, shallow and offensive. Her perspective has helped me to become the outstanding magician I am today. Thank God she feels about magic the way Criss Angel does, or I'd never be the artist I am.
Thank you Criss Angel. You are more loyal to your art form than to the other people who practice it.
Joshua Lozoff
deep-magic.com
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Spinnato
Veteran user
370 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 10:10am
Quote:
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On 2006-02-13 10:04, Joshua Lozoff wrote:
Her perspective has helped me to become the outstanding magician I am today.
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You're being way to modest!!
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Psychic Samurai
Eternal Order
Singapore
10593 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 10:15am
It seems that most of you here with a positive view of Chis's statements do not consider yourself as part of "most magicians"....Very interesting!
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The Doctor
Loyal user
Gallifrey
265 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 10:17am
Maybe he's hit a nerve Slim?
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chichi711
Inner circle
never should have made
5781 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 10:18am
Quote:
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On 2006-02-13 09:15, John LeBlanc wrote:
The fact is there aren't as many Criss Angels and David Copperfields and David Blaines and Penn & Tellers in the world of magic because there aren't that many magicians who are sufficiently motivated to push magic in a new direction.
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I would say that there are actually a lot of magicians that are better than Criss Angels and David Copperfields and David Blaines and Penn & Teller. (I am not one of them yet). The problem is a lot of times it comes down to who you know. The other problem is TV wont support much more than this. Honestly most people wont watch these shows, so why throw on 10 more of something people wont watch?
On a side note. I get bored watching a lot of shows in Vegas. To me a lot of Magicians in Vegas are over dramatic and boring. That is my opinion. I am not a layman so bottom line is my opinion of Vegas shows means nothing. All that matters is what layman see.
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John LeBlanc
Special user
Houston, TX
523 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 10:25am
Quote:
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On 2006-02-13 10:15, Slim King wrote:
It seems that most of you here with a positive view of Chis's statements do NOT consider yourself as part of "MOST MAGICIANS"....Very interesting!
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I don't know that I'd go so far as to say I have a positive view of what Criss said. I'd say I wouldn't argue with it. Truth smarts sometimes.
As for me, professionally I don't represent myself as either a magician or a mentalist. I neither suffer from the dogpiles left by those who don't take this stuff seriously, nor do I do damage to either artform when I have a bad day. At the end of a corporate event, my stage name either goes up or decreases in value. Then I go home and do a crossword puzzle.
Becoming famous is not rocket science, but it is tedious. Not everyone wants to be famous, and not everyone who does is willing to dig ditches.
John
Posted: Feb 13, 2006 10:32am
------------------------------------------------
Quote:
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On 2006-02-13 10:18, chichi711 wrote:
I would say that there are actually a lot of magicians that are better than Criss Angels and David Copperfields and David Blaines and Penn & Teller. (I am not one of them yet).
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You have to both define "better" and then put it in context. A "magician's magician" means nothing in the real world.
Quote:
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On 2006-02-13 10:18, chichi711 wrote:
The problem is a lot of times it comes down to who you know. The other problem is TV wont support much more than this. Honestly most people wont watch these shows, so why throw on 10 more of something people wont watch? |
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And how do you "know the right people"? You get out there a "do it." You have to take massive amounts of action. Woody Allen is variously quoted as saying, "90% of life is just showing up." The fact of the matter is, most people don't want to show up. They want all the benefits and accolades of showing up without actually having to do it.
I hope no one thinks Criss Angel was born into this world with a silver media spoon in his mouth. Same goes for Blaine and Copperfield and P&T and...on and on and on.
Quote:
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On 2006-02-13 10:18, chichi711 wrote:
All that matters is what layman see.
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Bingo.
John
Escamoteurettes, my blog.
"One thought fills immensity." -- William Blake
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CarlD
Regular user
111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 10:32am
Sorry Slim. I certainly count myself amongst the 'cheesey', and until public acclaim says I am otherwise, that's the opinion I will continue to hold. Not one of us can assume that we're wonderful until we've actually 'made it'. If we do then we're dead before we leave the house to perform.
Can you truthfully say you aren't cheesey? Or can you only say that you hope you aren't?
Chichi has it right too. Vegas shows are dull and over the top. But whether you or I could do better is meaningless, they're up there, we are not.
CarlD
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chichi711
Inner circle
never should have made
5781 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 10:48am
John yes you have to get out there and meet people. I agree with that 100%. Often times in all entertainment business it is luck. WHo was there when you showed up and did your thing? Take acting and singing for an example. You don't think that there is talent out there that has gone unoticed? I promise there is. I can also promise you there are people that have made it because of who they know. Take Ashely Simpson for an example with that. Ashley is probably the worst singer I have heard, yet she sells millions of albums. Unfortuantly for most people they can't afford to work for free for 5 or 6 years trying to make it. That is life. SOmetimes you get your one shot. You just have to hope the right people are watching. If they are watching you might make it. If they are not watching you can go dig ditches. Luck does have something to do with it. I would not say it is as easy as just showing up.
What I find funny about this thread.
Many magicians on here just bash the pro's over and over again. Take the Ellen thread for an example. Yet the second a well recognized magician calls the rest of us hacks we get all upset. It sounds like a lot of envy to me. That or sometimes the truth really hurts.
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J ack Galloway
Inner circle
1312 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 11:25am
Chi,
The difference is this is a forum not a public media venue.
Jack
H.12/O.17A-X
http://www.magicjim.net
http://www.JimClass.Com
http://jimclass.com/Lecture.htm
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salsa_dancer
Inner circle
1910 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 11:30am
Quote:
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On 2006-02-13 11:25, J ack Galloway wrote:
Chi,
The difference is this is a forum not a public media venue.
Jack
H.12/O.17A-X
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Sorry Jack, but this is a media venue that is open to the public. It is the same, in fact this is far more accessible than some American radio station.
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CarlD
Regular user
111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 11:37am
"Sorry Jack, but this is a media venue that is open to the public. It is the same, in fact this is far more accessible than some American radio station."
For once I have to agree with Salsa.
In fact you made this comment elsewhere too Jack, that what we do here is somehow locked away from the prying eyes of the public and will do nothing for our 'fame'. A very high proportion of those here are just lurkers, here to learn 'mind tricks' on the sly, and they will carry the word about the clever and the not so clever here with them. They see you for example doing a TV show at some point in the future, and they can't help their opinion of you being coloured by what you have said and done here.
And as Salsa says, we have a reach far bigger than many radio stations. Nobody can say that what we do here has no repercussions, no matter how small, in the 'real' world.
CarlD
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salsa_dancer
Inner circle
1910 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 11:55am
Quote:
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On 2006-02-13 11:37, CarlD wrote:
For once I have to agree with Salsa. |
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For once? If you have read through some of my posts as you claim, you will realise that I speak sense ALL the time. I don't know why there is a witch hunt against me? Is that you dad?
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CarlD
Regular user
111 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 12:01pm
LOL! Yes, it's me son:)
Carl
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Tom Jorgenson
Inner circle
LOS ANGELES
2377 Posts
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Posted: Feb 13, 2006 12:01pm
1: If Mr Angel was a nice guy, then perhaps he still is.
2. Every entertainer since the beginning of religions has thumped his own chest to the detriment of other entertainers, claiming 'I am Best'...it's what we do. It is meaningless and shouldn't be taken personally.
C: As a group, We ARE all the adjectives we can muster, and more. Good and bad. Individually, now that's a different thing.
4 - Doing good magic doesn't make you a good magician, it makes you a good performer of good magic. (I have no idea what that means, but I thyink it's going to be a chapter in my book.)
E - Angel's strong style will burn out quickly simply because he has locked himself into a non-sustainable style that the audience will get tired of seeing.
F....we're all cheezy, at some level, because of the base duplicity required of our Art...if not, we'd all be the equivalent of Mother Teresa.
G. Cheezy is funner than not-cheezy.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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