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Edith Regular user Germany 131 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-07 05:48, StuartPalm wrote: This can be an advantage too. Males can copy tricks more easily and end up with something not so good that doesn't fit whereas when women buy a new trick they really have to make up a new presentation and therefor have a better effect right away. So men are more at risk doing the same thing over and over again or just taking the trick out of the box with no original thought put into it. They may be more tempted to do that and women are not. |
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Sue-Anne Webster V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 97 Posts |
I wasn't aware that I was expressing a world view about anything under this thread and that my world view was correct or not... however, I think I'll express something like that under the "fraudulent practices" thread. Rather, I think we were trying to express what we know to be true of most females and males without having the university qualifications to express the thoughts in scientific language which would make for a whole thesis. In fact, I think someone has actually done that on this topic, come to think of it.
Power - I got into magic because I love things magical. I love the entertainment of it, I love the delight the audience gets when they watch it. I know that's not the same for everybody. |
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JordanMalfreed Regular user California 116 Posts |
Sue-Anne,
I was referring to the worldview you seem to be expressing that people who do readings are engaged in deception. I'll look at the other thread too. Following the protocols, Jordan |
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Chrystal Inner circle Canada/France 1552 Posts |
Hi ,
Having personally viewed many youths performing at conventions, I was thrilled that the last one I attended had equal numbers of girls competing as boys recently. :I think times are a changing", and we'll see an increase in numbers. Janis Joplin changed the views back in the 70's when she became the first female rocker and now it's common place, although considered rare in that era. Even at the Café there is quite a few female members, but most choose to not post avatars or decide not to specify gender in their names. I've always thought within 20 years (my own personal view) that the number while not totally equal will be another place where's it's not considered unusual either. Chrystal |
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Matt Pulsar Inner circle 1130 Posts |
In response to Jordan. The allure of magic for many people is very similar to the allure of a super hero. This is what I mean about power. A magician shows that he has power over things. And he does. He, or She, , practices very specific things until they have complete control over them. So does a juggler, or a dancer, or a gymnast. These people have power the audience does not. Performers know that the power we have will completely disengage the audience and take them to a place where they wish they could stay. A place where more things are possible. Look at the terms many use: "I fried them," "He killed them;" why is this how we describe a good performance?
I do not think magic is inherently about power. I think magic is inherently about magic. But there are a lot of power issues that bring people to magic. I think preserving the mystery, and giving mystery is more along the lines to what magic is about. Mystification. On the other topic, just my two cents. If you know some psychics who aren't deceiving someone, perhaps themselves, I would love to meet them. It would be great if they exist. But I generally have the same response to psychics I have seen or sat with that I do real monte throwers I have watched. The effect is crude and they would need more study and practice to do well in our business. Once there was a guy who came into the bar I used to work at dressed as a siek, who did some amazing cold reading and swami work. He had been practicing and was as close to psychic as I have ever seen. Sorry to get off topic. And now back to "female Magicians" P.S. Jordan, What are the protocols you are following?
Belief Manifests Reality.
Nebula CT: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8517 |
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
JORDAN: I think it's very funny that though magicians are thrilled when they get off stage to be able to say "I killed them!" they hate it if someone's been there first. "They were dead!"
www.MagicUnlimited.com
www.timellismagic.com Visit our online shop for instant downloads and ebooks https://shop.timellismagic.com/ Blog - www.magicunlimited.typepad.com |
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JordanMalfreed Regular user California 116 Posts |
StuartPalm,
Since you asked, let me give you some examples of some people who are not engaged in deception, but who use the tools of what you are referring to as psychic. Some people believe that using a chance means such as tarot, for example, to view their world differently for a bit and to find perspectives that perhaps they didn't or wouldn't think of themselves to be a useful way to look at the world. There are also those who believe for example that their use of the tarot is genuinely psychic. It is their view and belief, and if perhaps you believe they are deluding themselves, that does not make it true. Certainly it can as easily be said that you, Tim, and Sue-Anne are deluding yourselves as well. I'm not saying you are deluding yourselves, but merely pointing out that people can have different views and that we should have respect for other people's views. Have you ever thought you were right about something and that another person was wrong only to find later that the reverse was true? I'd say that most everyone has. By the way not everyone who performs magic describes a great performance as "killing" and even when they do, it is not necessarily meant as a power related statement. If you look into the origins of the expression for example, you'll see that comics use the expression to describe how the audience was affected by their laughter such as falling out of their chairs, holding their sides from pain from laughing so hard, etc. The protocols signature is in reference to Max's book as well as other things. Folllowing the protocols, Jordan |
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Jordan raises an interesting point - many do believe the Tarot is genuinely psychic and, though Sue-Anne and I as magicians are aware of fraud and sleight of hand often being used in conjunction with such artifices, we are also aware that there is a very real aspect to the occult. The Bible tells us to avoid fortune telling and spirits, and it wouldn't warn us of such things if there wasn't a very real danger. If you're interested in a discussion of this topic Jordan, start a new thread and we'll be happy to chat with you.
Meanwhile - BACK TO FEMALE MAGICIANS!
www.MagicUnlimited.com
www.timellismagic.com Visit our online shop for instant downloads and ebooks https://shop.timellismagic.com/ Blog - www.magicunlimited.typepad.com |
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IT Magic Regular user Australia 113 Posts |
"The protocols signature is in reference to Max's book as well as other things."
Hmm Max's book, now there is a topic, though I'm not sure how you could apply it to living life, the other things I will ignore as "the protocols" as a term has a well defined reputation and generally only used nowdays to either offend, denegrate or self promote. Sorry to rant off topic but hey, I'm a passion filled guy. Now back to female magicians. Sue-Anne, without being sucky, you are a very attractive lady and I wondered if you find this distracting to male audiences (single minded creatures that we are) and without being flirty or cheap, do you ever use their preoccupation to your advantage as extra mis-direction. Brendan PS Hopefully a serious question makes up for my ranting.
Magic, Illusion and Data Management
www.stardockmagi.blogspot.com I picture a world of love and peace, a world without war where people live together in harmony. I also picture us attacking that world 'cause they just wouldn't expect it |
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JordanMalfreed Regular user California 116 Posts |
Tim,
Thank you for your response. You may start a new topic if you wish you wish. I was merely replying due to the concerns that I have for what you and your partner were stating, because the comments were quite bothersome. I understand that you are following your own beliefs, and as should be obvious from my comments that I have no problem with that...I wish more people would follow their own beliefs. I think it would be nice if you and your partner would not make such negative remarks and engage in such negative stereotyping of people who practice different beliefs than you. That's really what I wish to express. I believe that the smile you send out returns to you. Be well. Following the protocols, Jordan |
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JordanMalfreed Regular user California 116 Posts |
Brendan,
You wrote: "the protocols" as a term has a well defined reputation and generally only used nowdays to either offend, denegrate or self promote. I am not working to offend, denegrate, or self promote. I think you must be thinking of some other sort of protocols rather than the ones that I follow. By the way, one of my favorite protocols is AppleTalk, but it just doesn't scale well unfortunately. Following the protocols, Jordan |
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Sue-Anne Webster V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 97 Posts |
Oh, Brendan - are you not aware of the magic of make-up?
:) Thankyou for your kind words... and innocently loaded OK... Honestly, I have never been aware at how I might come across before. It was only a little while ago when words spoken buy someone (with whom I trust with the welfare of my soul) convinced me that I could get people's attention. It came when I was in a depressed state and thought I couldn't entertain for nuts - that no-one would want to really watch what I do. I tried to see what this person meant - so I tried a few things. I guess being a bit of a tomboy - hanging out with the boys when I was younger, caving, rockclimbing, hiking, I thought I was just another boy to them (guys) and never thought I was attractive at all. Anyway - I've tried to think of myself as a 'girl' now, and accepting boys being boys - humoured myself that it maybe it could be possible that I might be able to draw attention. So yeah - for a couple of months, now - I've used that subtle 'power' thing that stuart was alluding to. And, it works! So, yes, I use it |
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Sue-Anne Webster V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 97 Posts |
Oh - and this is what I meant when I said that girls can have an advantage in magic if they use what they've got, properly.
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IT Magic Regular user Australia 113 Posts |
Jordan, guess you you know why TCP was such a hit then huh. I do have a particularly vitriolic response to use of the term and still think any use such as in a sig is provocative, but I'm sensitive and delicate.
Sue-Anne - My kind words were not meant to be loaded, and perhaps you are right about my make up knowledge, I met my wife when we were both avid rock climbers (another tom boy)and she wears makeup maybe half a dozen times a year. And if I say you're attractive then you damm well are and don't argue with me. *g* Ask Tim, he'll back me on this one. As for using what you got, I wish I had big muscles or something to distract the ladies and perhaps a beer keg on my back for the guys.
Magic, Illusion and Data Management
www.stardockmagi.blogspot.com I picture a world of love and peace, a world without war where people live together in harmony. I also picture us attacking that world 'cause they just wouldn't expect it |
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Sue-Anne Webster V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 97 Posts |
I'm sure you don't need big muscles and a keg!
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Yep Brendan, I'll back you up, she's attractive alright!
www.MagicUnlimited.com
www.timellismagic.com Visit our online shop for instant downloads and ebooks https://shop.timellismagic.com/ Blog - www.magicunlimited.typepad.com |
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IT Magic Regular user Australia 113 Posts |
Hey Sue-Anne,
nah nah nanah nah Told you so
Magic, Illusion and Data Management
www.stardockmagi.blogspot.com I picture a world of love and peace, a world without war where people live together in harmony. I also picture us attacking that world 'cause they just wouldn't expect it |
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Matt Pulsar Inner circle 1130 Posts |
Wow, this is going strange places. Ok so to sum things up. Women have some powers over men. Sue-Anne is Gorgeous. Tim Agrees. something about Max and protocols that I don't understand. We should respect Tarot (I have no problem with that.) People use deception (we have go to accept that.) Women are different than men. We entertain and perform magic differently.
Specifically to Jordan: I get where you are going, and I do respect the fact that many people use such things as Tarot, I-Ching, etc... To give themselves a different perspective on their lives. I truely respect that and would not want to downplay this practice. HOWEVER, I do not call these practices truely psychic. Or these people truely psychic. And I will state agiain that I would be very happy to find someone who IS truely psychic. And as far as I have found the closest to psychic out there are performers who undrestand how to work the room well. It is true however that there are many people in the world of the Occult who pray on the uninformed. They use ignorance and many methods we use to keep people coming back and spending more, diluting them with nonsense. This IS Deception. Any psychic fair is full of it. Aside from that I know I should ignore your comment as I am only breeding rebuttle. BUT, (sorry everyone,) I need to ask why you feel the need to negate everything I say. The responce to the idea of "killing the audience," for example. Yes comics use it too. Yes not everyone uses these expressions. But it seems that you find the intrest in power to be a negative. There are, as in all things, negative aspects to seeking power. But, I state this as an observation of something natural. As a performer I love the power I feel, the love I feel the feeling of 'in the moment' I get from being on stage. I don't think it is wrong. It just is. It makes me feel great. A great show is one of the best feelings in the world. And none of us will get anywhere without a little self promotion. That is all. There is power and you can't deny it. I never said I thought it was wrong. I made the observation to point out the reasons people get into this stuff to begin with. Lets be honest here. AND back to the topic:
Belief Manifests Reality.
Nebula CT: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8517 |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
I'd say men are men, women are women, and magicians are magicians- usually male or female.
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Sue-Anne Webster V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 97 Posts |
I've been thinking things over this last week... and Chrystal may have a point with the numbers increasing significantly over the next 20 years. Maybe sooner.
We have an active magic shop in Australia - Tammii Twister's Magic Factory - where the owners are encouraging children, many of whom are girls, to perform magic. I don't know where it's going to take them, eventually - but the boys are growing up with the girls thinking that girls involved in magic is a natural thing. They're sessioning with them like it's a perfectly normal thing to do. A magician I was chatting to, today reckoned that females are far more prone to get out there and do the entertaining. He's observed that the majority of men might be EXCELLENT at practising - but so many are not willing to perform. Considering the NUMBERS of men doing magic - it's not for lack of work that they're not out performing. Men just LOVE to practise - a bit like women doing things they like, like sewing or painting/drawing or doing crafty things in their spare time. He reckons it's only a matter of time when females are encouraged into magic practise as their thing to do in their spare time. But, he reckons that they are MORE LIKELY to get out and perform. Interesting. It could be like any of the arts, once they start - like singing and acting where LOADS of females have infiltrated those performance areas - whereas once there weren't. Gotta tell you... at this magic shop - the owners of the Magic Café attached have a little girl, 3 years old. She assists her uncle in magic classes - then takes over when a customer comes in the shop and her uncle has to leave the class. VERY funny. She makes suggestions to thirteen year old boys what and how to perform - and they actually take her seriously and do what she says. I saw her sessioning with a twelve year old boy today - working on a coin routine. I couldn't believe it - they were both having a ball!! 3 YEARS OLD! It's all so natural |
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