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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Many of you out there might know I'm a mad WWE wrestling fan. I even wrote an editorial for MAGIC on how magicians can learn from the WWE.
http://www.magicunlimited.com/PubAttitude.htm Last year I actually got to attend WRESTLEMANIA 21 in the Staples Center in LA, but even better than that Scott Robinson (brother of Charles) presented me with a Smackdown T-Shirt signed by over 30 Superstars (including the late-great Eddie Guerrero. My question is this: Who else outh there in Café-land is a wrestling fan and what have you learned from watching the WWE that you have applied to magic?
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IT Magic Regular user Australia 113 Posts |
Invisible text? I had to highlight the page to read it.
Brendan
Magic, Illusion and Data Management
www.stardockmagi.blogspot.com I picture a world of love and peace, a world without war where people live together in harmony. I also picture us attacking that world 'cause they just wouldn't expect it |
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Don't start that again! LOL... I'm actually fixing it as we speak.
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
And after all the nice things you said about me making the website too...
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IT Magic Regular user Australia 113 Posts |
Oh you text hider you.
Magic, Illusion and Data Management
www.stardockmagi.blogspot.com I picture a world of love and peace, a world without war where people live together in harmony. I also picture us attacking that world 'cause they just wouldn't expect it |
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Philipp K Loyal user Germany 228 Posts |
Tim,
since I've been a wrestling fan back in the 90's (my heros were Razor Ramon, Diesel, Doink the clown, Yokozuna, Brett the hitman, Bam Bam Bigelow and many others) I really enjoyed reading your article and it's a lot of truth in there that we (magicians) can learn from. But, I personally think one point has been left out, which to me is important. It's the attitude the audience approaches a magic show with. The entertainment part of wrestling doesn't start the moment a wrestler approaches the arena, it's long before that, it's a long time project to build up that excitement which explodes in emotions at the point the actual wrestling takes place. So if we wanted the same excitement in our audiences we would have to create another image of magicians first. I too think that exotic or odd names and nicknames would help a lot. But when we hear "The great ...", "The amazing ..." or "Magic ..." our minds close the door for seeing new images before the show, because we have seen so many "normal" (maybe even non-exciting) magicians with those titles in their names that it's difficult for us to believe that particular artist will be different and rise apart from the rest. What wrestlers have done correctly is they adapted to modern time and thinking which created a whole new image. If someone thinks of a magician they still see a tuxedo wearing rabbit-out-of-the-hat-puller. If you look at the evolution of wrestling you will notice in what short time they've managed to rise apart from average entertainment and into something completely new. Magic seems to evolve too, but in small steps instead of big changes, we will get there someday too, it's just our decision how fast we'd like to arrive. Since I'm "only" 18 and this is just a thought, I could be terribly wrong, but that's something one has to decide for himself. Anyway, - LONG LIVE WRESTLING - WHOOOOOOOOOOOO (Rick Flair) Philipp
Doc Brown : If you put your mind to it , you can accomplish anything .
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Philipp, you may be "only" 18 but you make some excellent points!
Imagine if someone like Kurt Angle were to appear on the wrestling scene, then every second wrestler we see is an Olympic medallist... ridiculous! Yet I see that type of evolution happening in magic. One "original" character like David Blaine emerges, and every second magician is suddenly wearing T-shirts and stubble and doing "street magic". The same happened when Doug Henning emerged, when Copperfield emerged etc... I do like the 'good vs bad' soap opera aspect of the wrestling. The way that the involvement of an interesting storyline elevates a good display of skill into an emotion-filled drama. The tension that can be created with a series of near-pins can have you on the edge of your seat. How can magic generate that level of excitement? But seriously... Doink The Clown!
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Philipp K Loyal user Germany 228 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-07 06:49, Tim Ellis wrote: A good example for the above would be cutting the aces by Vernon. When told convincingly the story can be breathtaking. I think giving routines a personal meaning (in stories or through other ways) is essential for transmitting that tension. By adding conflict to your performance the audience can be lifted into a higher/different level of excitement. It's the same as in wrestling where people think and sort of care about their stars: "Gosh he's going to lose. I hope he can get up again. He's up .... but no he's been slammed down once more. Maybe if I keep my fingers crossed ..... yes it works, it works, he's back." By this back and forth action the audience gets involved even more in the stories every time their expectation becomes reality than by just watching it happen. They can not only see it but actually feel what the performer is going through. It's that power struggle that keeps everything interesting.
Doc Brown : If you put your mind to it , you can accomplish anything .
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Caleb Wiles Inner circle Indianapolis, IN 1132 Posts |
I've actually been involved with the independent wrestling scene for a few years now. Those not familiar with the term "independent wrestling" would probably consider the organizations I work with to be the minor leagues. Mostly, I've acted as a referee, but have also done my share of ring announcing and hotline hosting. I've worked with a lot of guys on their way up (Abyss, Wildcat Chris Harris, CM Punk, Colt Cabana) and met a lot of big stars on their way down (Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Grand Master Sexay, King Kong Bundy, Public Enemy, Jimmy Valiant, Demolition Ax).
You guys are correct that there are a lot of similarities between pro wrestling and magic. I always tell this joke while performing for magicians... "As many of you know I'm not only a magician, I'm also a professional wrestling referee. In fact, the two fields are very similar. After all, both involve psychology and deception. Over the years, however, I've grown sick of all the backstage fighting and bickering in the wrestling business. You see when a wrestler invents a new way to perform a body slam or a piledriver, it's a matter of personal pride. When he sees another wrestler performing his move in front of a crowd, he obviously becomes very upset and fights always occur. So wrestlers are constantly fighting over who created what move and whose move is just a variation, etc. I basically got so sick of this bickering that I got out of the wrestling business and decided to become... a magician" Caleb
Check out my Main Event project (DVD or Download).
"Magicians, stop what you're doing right now and pick this up!" - John Guastaferro "Caleb Wiles is the real deal!" - David Williamson "...my very highest recommendation." - John Carey |
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Mark Martinez Inner circle Wisconsin 1276 Posts |
Caleb,
Very nice, Funny!!! Because we all know Magician never bicker over who created what!!!
Magically,
Mark Success comes before work only in the dictionary. - Anonymous |
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Caleb, aren't you the one who started the WRESTLING FAKERS page?
ORIGINAL - Superstar Billy Graham NEW WRESTLER - Hulk Hogan
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Caleb Wiles Inner circle Indianapolis, IN 1132 Posts |
Sorry, Tim. That wasn't me.
Are you a fan of TNA (Total Nonstop Action)? I've worked with a few of those guys for years before they actually made it to the "big time." While I'll always be a fan of the WWE, the matches you'll find on a TNA show are more my style. Samoa Joe, AJ Styles, Chris Sabin, etc. are simply awesome. Caleb
Check out my Main Event project (DVD or Download).
"Magicians, stop what you're doing right now and pick this up!" - John Guastaferro "Caleb Wiles is the real deal!" - David Williamson "...my very highest recommendation." - John Carey |
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
We don't get TNA here in Australia. They screened it for a little while on Pay TV but it was mainly old episodes, and in the wrong order too. I've heard good and bad reports about TNA, and I keep up to date by reading http://www.pwtorch.com and http://www.prowrestling.com
I've heard their product is getting better and better though. I've also heard Paul Heyman is doing wonders with OVW. I wouldn't mind seeing that on TV. Apparently he's really creating some great storylines. Samoa Joe and AJ Styles came out to Australia last year, but I was out of town and - to be honest - I actually enjoy the wrestling on TV much more than I do live. (Though Wrestlemania 21 was something special!) Wrestlemania
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Corey Harris Inner circle Kansas City, MO 1229 Posts |
Hey Tim, I am actually an Independent Professional Wrestler. I have been a fan for as long as I have been into magic(since 88). I am only 23 though. I actually just released an ebook called "On the road with Tanker" It documents most of my career up until I broke my back last may.
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Back breaking seems to be an occupational hazard in the life of a wrestler... all magicians ever have to worry about with their backs is finding kinives in them.
Seriously though, did your time as a wrestler taught you lessons in showmanship and presentation?
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Corey Harris Inner circle Kansas City, MO 1229 Posts |
I would have to say yes. You have to have a certain presense in wrestling. So I think obtaining that same presense in magic is very helpful. Unfortunatly I cant bring my whole character over because I am a bad guy. I am working on my return Vignette right now. I go up to a sweet little old lady and say "Excuse me, maam?", "Did you know you were late.", "Your funeral was 2 weeks ago, we cant have dead corpes walking around by themselves now can we!"
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
You are definitely a heel! LOL
I just watched RAW last night and it was a good example of what we've been talking about. Virtually none of the matches had any backstory to them. KANE vs TRIPLE H as a "Wrestlemania rewind match" - so what? No other reason as to why these two should be fighting each other, and it was a dull, dull match. The only storyline that was progressed in the whole two hour show was McMahons vs Michaels... and they'd "poisoned" his drinking water so though the story was interesting, HBK couldn't wrestle so we got all story with no action... that didn't work either. Such a simple lesson, if the audience don't CARE about your trick, don't waste their time and yours by doing it. By the same token, don't give your trick a really interesting build up only to have a weak pay-off.
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Brad Burt Inner circle 2675 Posts |
What Philipp said above and an application. First, off it's brilliant. Setting the mood for a piece of magic in advance as they set the mood in WWE is something that I have argued for, but I admit on a limited format. I see it's much wider application now, but here is an example for folks. The Balducci Levitation to be truly powerful needs a build up in my opinion. For the few times that I used it I only used it in casual circumstance and built up to it for at least an hour. Either the topic of the Lev came up and I inserted myself or I would attempt to get the conversation onto the topic. From there once folks asked me to do it...then the build up starts: Oh, I don't do it too much anymore as the energy needed is .... Understand if I attempt this that I can only do it for 1 or 2 people and that's pretty much it for a week or more .... You ge the idea? I am not only setting up the parameters for the performance I am building up EXPECTATION OF SUCCESS in the minds of the audience. I am also inserting suggestions that will enhance the eventual effect and affect of the performance on those I select to be the witnessess to the 'feat'. I am also watching the audience and looking for one or two persons, generally woment, who I believe will be the most suggestable and most amenable to belief in what I will do.
I talk about Hindu Yogi's, Levitation as a skill long practiced in the orient, etc., etc. You have to build your own rap and also be able to deliver it with skill and conviction. The Balducci is a brilliant piece of magic, but it is not something that you can toss off and get all that is available from it. Build up is everything. I know at least one magician who following this formula had a spectator faint dead away as he reached the top of his levitation. He called it disconcerting! But, his performance for just two people became the topic of conversation for pretty much the rest of the night! (He also got bookings...) It would be smashing if we could figure out how to build up our show before we walked into a living room to do a 30 minute stand up show for a private party. Wouldn't it? How would we do that? We can't afford to do tv commercials...how would we target the people who are going to be there? What if you could send a DVD about your show to everyone who is going to be at the show as part of the invitation? Cost picked up by the folks booking you? What if you had several tv playing your build up for 1-2 hours before you were introduced? I don't know, just noodling here. Ever notice that when some new idea comes along all the first ideas on how to solve it are always costly and/or complicated? Best,
Brad Burt
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Tim Ellis V.I.P. Melbourne, Australia 1234 Posts |
Very true Brad, and as a very simple example I think we all know how much easier it is to perform a show when the audience is expecting you, they've heard about you, maybe they've even paid money to come to see you.
At a corporate event, when you are unexpected and announced, you're a nobody who has to win the crowd over with your skill. But the show always has more impact if you've been built up throughout the evening, even if it's just the MC telling the audience a little bit more about you and how excited he is that you'll be appearing, each time he says anything during the course of the night. Another tactic is to have "programmes" on the tables. So people can read a little about you before the show begins, but the best build up is word of mouth from people they trust. Think about it. If a violinist came out to perform at your company dinner, he'd have to be pretty good to get your attention. But if, all work, the office was buzzing with the word that you had the world's best violinist appearing at the dinner, there would total attention and anticipation as soon as he was announced. We often do "package" shows where we do close up over cocktails, then the show after main course. It's always so much easier to get their attention when you've been able to introduce who you are and what you do to them earlier. Often I'll say "If you liked this, you're going to love what we've got for you after dinner."
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mitchmagi Regular user 129 Posts |
"I think we all know how much easier it is to perform a show when the audience is expecting you, they've heard about you, maybe they've even paid money to come to see you."
Compare the audience of a rock concert - people who know the band, wait hours for it to start and have paid good money to see theem ... there is the complete pre-show vibe bordering on group think mentality. By the time the show starts most audiences are at fever pitch ... Compare this to the magician with zero pre-show "sell" and as Tim mentions you've got a long, hard battle ahead of you to win them over. Having said that I'm also wary of too much hype ahead of show time - because this tactic also gets so over used. And when your end product never matches the hype - you've got serious issues ! |
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